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| Posted: 08 Aug 2008 19:47 | [?] |
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Registered User Currently Offline Join Date: Jul 2008 |
Posts: 22 Reputation: 2 [?] User Rank: Second Lieutenant 
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First of all I want to thank BuellpartsGuy for the killer jardine exhaust! I was loving it for the past 3 weeks until my dilemma last night....
I work about 25 miles from my apt. and on the way home I hit a thunderstorm so I had no choice but to tough it out. I was driving in the rain for roughly 20 min or so. When I made it into town, the bike was running fine. I was at a left turn light waiting for it to turn green and my bike stahled (i think thats how you spell it) twice before I could turn. When I got the green light I took off and while accelerating and shifting into 2nd gear, it was like the ignition just cut out. I pulled into a trailer park and the bike wouldn't even turn over. Keep in mind that EVERYTHING is soaking wet. Anyways, I turned the key off then back on and again wouldn't turn over, so I flicked the kill switch off then on again (normally I hear the fuel pump/injectors when I flip the red kill switch) and didn't hear the noise i normally hear when I flip that switch. And most importantly, the starter wouldn't kick in when I hit the yellow starter switch. Yes the bike was in neutral lol....and also tried pulling the clutch in when starting it a few times. WTF is going on? 
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| Posted: 08 Aug 2008 19:50 | [?] |
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Registered User Currently Offline Join Date: Jul 2008 |
Posts: 22 Reputation: 2 [?] User Rank: Second Lieutenant
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| By the way it is a 2003 xb9r with only 4400 miles! | |
| Posted: 08 Aug 2008 19:59 | [?] |
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Registered User Currently Offline Join Date: Mar 2008 |
Posts: 180 Reputation: 12 [?] User Rank: Captain 
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| Check your fuses...with it being wet something could have very easly shorted. Almost willing to put money on that...Good luck.. | |
| Posted: 08 Aug 2008 20:03 | [?] |
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Registered User Currently Offline Join Date: Jul 2008 |
Posts: 22 Reputation: 2 [?] User Rank: Second Lieutenant
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| I will give it a shot. I'm guessing that they are located in the front fairing where all the wire harnesses lead to? LOL | |
| Posted: 08 Aug 2008 20:03 | [?] |
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Moderator Currently Offline Join Date: Jun 2007 |
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bottom left of engine, there is a ground connection which could cause that when it's raining hard.
best is to get that cleaned and spray some silicone grease or dielectric grease on it so water can no get to it. |
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| Posted: 08 Aug 2008 20:11 | [?] |
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Registered User Currently Offline Join Date: Mar 2008 |
Posts: 180 Reputation: 12 [?] User Rank: Captain
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| Yeah fuses are in the black plastic blocks at the front right and left in fairing next to the blinkers(flashers). | |
| Posted: 09 Aug 2008 22:39 | [?] |
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Registered User Currently Offline Join Date: Jul 2008 |
Posts: 22 Reputation: 2 [?] User Rank: Second Lieutenant
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| Zoedogg1 you were right about the ignition fuse being blown. I still have a problem though......fuses keep blowing. Electrical problems are always a nightmare! | |
| Posted: 10 Aug 2008 10:59 | [?] |
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Moderator Currently Offline Join Date: Jun 2007 |
Posts: 2627 Reputation: 49 [?] User Rank: Five-Star General
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check the wire harness near the steering head.
there is a pretty sharp edge there which is known to open up a few wires if not fitted 100% correctly. |
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| Posted: 10 Aug 2008 21:58 | [?] |
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Registered User Currently Offline Join Date: Jul 2008 |
Posts: 22 Reputation: 2 [?] User Rank: Second Lieutenant
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| I checked the harnesses and there was no signs of water present but i will do what you suggested, good idea. I wasnt able to find the ground wire you (Lefox) were talking about at the left rear of the engine. Is it at the top left rear or bottom left, what else is it near? I have the service manual and I printed it at work but the copies i have dont show the wire routing very well. The two wires that lead to the ignition fuse are red w/ a black stripe and the other one is a weird light bluish/green with a light orange/redish color. The red/black supposedly leads to a ground off of the ECM but I tried following the harness and couldnt find where it lead to. The bluish-green/orange-ish-red is one of three wires that lead to the coil under the airbox. Another thing that I found kind of intriguing was the fact that I had the ignition relay and key switch relay pulled out of the fusebox on the left side of the bike (the three grey 5-terminal blocks, on that side) and I put a new fuse in then I put the 5-terminal ignition relay back into the plug and following that I put in the starter switch relay. Immediately after installing the key switch relay, the fuse blew. The weird thing was that I pulled them back out and the key switch relay was hot and the ignition relay wasn't. Would this mean that there is potentially something wrong in the key switch circuit? This is driving me nuts! | |
| Posted: 10 Aug 2008 22:08 | [?] |
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Registered User Currently Offline Join Date: Jul 2008 |
Posts: 22 Reputation: 2 [?] User Rank: Second Lieutenant
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| I just thought of something here......I just installed the jardine exhaust and I had to take off the kickstand which involved cutting off the heat shrink wrap on the harness. When I Re-installed it (in my buddys garage) I got some heat shrink wrap from my buddy and he didnt have a heat gun to shrink it. I just kinda figured that the exhaust/engine heat would shrink it and seal but when I looked at it, it didnt do that it never shrank and sealed the harness. Is this something that would short out the ignition? | |
| Posted: 11 Aug 2008 00:27 | [?] |
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Registered User Currently Offline Join Date: Mar 2008 |
Posts: 180 Reputation: 12 [?] User Rank: Captain
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| You can just use a lighter to shrink that. But as far as the fuse goes it sounds like you have go a problem with grounding out in the ignition switch itself. Maybe some water in the key hole somehow..? I would start with those wire though and the ingnition housing itself. The problem is most likely there if the fuse blows the second you put the key in. | |
| Posted: 11 Aug 2008 11:30 | [?] |
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Moderator Currently Offline Join Date: Jun 2007 |
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if the fuse blows, it's not a ground problem...
there must be a short somewhere in your ignition circuit. overcheck the harness where you cut the wrap and fix it propperly. |
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| Posted: 12 Aug 2008 16:23 | [?] |
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Registered User Currently Offline Join Date: Jul 2008 |
Posts: 22 Reputation: 2 [?] User Rank: Second Lieutenant
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Zoedogg the ignition fuse isn't blowing when I put the key in, it blows when I flip the red kill switch to the "run" position. Lefox is correct, it is not a problem with the ground in the circuit itself, it is something else within the circuit that is grounding out. Each circuit has a certain amount of resistance within it. When there is a short, (i.e. when a bare wire touches the frame) the resistance virtually goes to zero, thus spiking the amperage in the circuit beyond the fuse capacity thus blowing the fuse. The trick is to find that short in the circuit.
I tried dis-connecting the sidestand harness and fuel pump and then I put in a another fuse, but it still blew. Im starting to think that it is the key switch itself as Zoedogg suggested. I wanted to take the key/ignition switch out last night and take it apart but it has some funky hex head with a protruding cylindrical center, whichs means you need a hex key with a hole in the center. Another possible culprit (i thought) was the starter solenoid but last night I took the ignition relay out but left the starter and key switch relays and the starter would turn over. Are there any other ideas you guys have? This is driving me nuts! |
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| Posted: 12 Aug 2008 16:27 | [?] |
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Registered User Currently Offline Join Date: Jul 2008 |
Posts: 22 Reputation: 2 [?] User Rank: Second Lieutenant
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| I forgot to include that I did check all of the wires, harnesses near the steering pivot point. Everything seems to be in order. There were no signs of any wear on the insulation or the wrap that exists around multiple wire sets. | |
| Posted: 12 Aug 2008 20:57 | [?] |
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Registered User Currently Offline Join Date: Mar 2008 |
Posts: 180 Reputation: 12 [?] User Rank: Captain
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| I would open up the control unit for the kill/starter switch and make sure all is well there, perhaps something touching your handle bar? Trapped water? If you havent do that anyhow. | |
| Posted: 13 Aug 2008 00:34 | [?] |
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Registered User Currently Offline Join Date: Jul 2008 |
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A few guys at work suggested using Electrical contact cleaner. This stuff is for circuit boards, switches, relays, etc. which is an air-propelled cleaner that dries almost instantly, gets rid of moisture and doens't leave behind any residue. Now, if it would solve my problem, it would be great!
Please god, if you can hear me.... HELP! |
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| Posted: 13 Aug 2008 02:02 | [?] |
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Registered User Currently Offline Join Date: Mar 2008 |
Posts: 180 Reputation: 12 [?] User Rank: Captain
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Did you check ALL the fuses on the bike? Again clean ignition switch connector, maybe check even the relays for peace of mind which Im sure are fine on opposite side of bike from fuse box. Check the kill/start switches by removing them from the handle bar and clean. Blast out ignition key switch with air real good.
All I can think of for now.... |
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| Posted: 13 Aug 2008 04:55 Last Edited By: Buellysses | [?] |
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Registered User Currently Offline Join Date: Jul 2008 |
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Well, what I can find so far; (this is from an 06 uly, so not sure if the colors will line up, but the basics should be the same.
R/Bk wire feeds the ignition fuse. GY/O is the output (load) side of the fuse. List of where it goes after the fuse: -Instrument cluster (pin 12) -Ignition relay (pin 5) (this pin is connected to pin 4 when the kill switch is put in "run") -RH Controls (pin 4) (this will in activate the coils for the ignition and start relays) I would start by pulling the ignition relay and giving it a whirl. The bike will not do anything, but if your fuse doesn't blow you can rule out the RH switch, instrument cluster, and all the wiring before the relay. On pin 4 of the ignition relay you will find a gray wire. This is what actually feeds the ignition circuits for the bike. Goes to: -ECM pin 1 -Both fuel injectors -ignition coil -fuel pump motor -Data link port Since you already pulled the fuel pump harness I would go after the coils. Don't know if anyone has ran into a shorted coil... but you never know. If it is the ignition fuse that is blowing you can rule out the key switch. |
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| Posted: 13 Aug 2008 10:39 | [?] |
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Moderator Currently Offline Join Date: Jun 2007 |
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| YumaBuell, i would make a list with the things you checked, cause otherwise this is going to be a mess and we'll overlook details. | |
| Posted: 13 Aug 2008 15:28 | [?] |
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Registered User Currently Offline Join Date: May 2008 |
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| you could always get a can of WD 40 after any plugs or ignition wires since it happened in the rain. that should take any water out of the equation. | |
| Posted: 13 Aug 2008 15:58 | [?] |
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Moderator Currently Offline Join Date: Jun 2007 |
Posts: 2627 Reputation: 49 [?] User Rank: Five-Star General
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Quoting blackxb12r
you could always get a can of WD 40 after any plugs or ignition wires since it happened in the rain. that should take any water out of the equation. even better is 'dielectric electric contact grease' 
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| Posted: 13 Aug 2008 19:44 | [?] |
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Registered User Currently Offline Join Date: Jul 2008 |
Posts: 22 Reputation: 2 [?] User Rank: Second Lieutenant
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This is a list of the things I have done in an attempt to diagnose this issue:
1) Checked all fuses, the ignition fuse is the only one that is blowing 2) Dis-connected fuel pump and side stand harness, then installed ignition fuse and it blew 3) Took off front fairing and inspected all wire harnesses for signs of water and/or wear and found that neither were present. 4) Dis-assembled the kill/starter switch assembly, no signs of water or bare wires. 5) Pulled out all relays, put in new ignition fuse, turned key on and put relays in one at a time (all 6 combinations possible). When the ignition relay is NOT in the fuse is ok and the starter will turn over. 6) Disconnected battery waited for 5 minutes, re-connected and fuse still blew. My next step was going to be troubleshooting the coil as Buellysses suggested, but last night when I started working on the bike I got a phonecall from a girl who wanted to come over, so I had to TCB. Tonight I plan on troubleshooting the coil, it sounds like the culprit since that grey wire (pin 4) from the switch leads to the coil. The other wire colors are the same on the firebolt and I do recall seeing a grey wire in the kill/starter cluster when I dis-assembled it. If that doens't work I will have to bust out the multi-meter and electric test light. I appreciate all the suggestions because I need it! (TCB= Take care of Business!) |
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| Posted: 13 Aug 2008 20:48 | [?] |
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Registered User Currently Offline Join Date: Mar 2008 |
Posts: 180 Reputation: 12 [?] User Rank: Captain
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Voltage regulator also..? I was reading through the manual to help with an answer, but Im beginning to run out of ideas myself.  If it is either the coil or voltage regulator I'd be pretty surprised. I've never heard of the coil blowing fuses like that, only under powering, and the regulator is unlikely since the bike has to be running for that to put out to much I would think.
Im stumped man....By the way...GET SOME!!! Yeah!! 
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| Posted: 13 Aug 2008 20:53 | [?] |
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Registered User Currently Offline Join Date: Jul 2008 |
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| Don't use a test light on computer controlled vehicles. They can draw to much power to run the light bulb and fry your ECM. Stick with the multimeter/voltmeter, they don't hurt things and you get accurate readings rather then how bright/dim your light is. | |
| Posted: 13 Aug 2008 21:28 | [?] |
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Registered User Currently Offline Join Date: Jul 2008 |
Posts: 22 Reputation: 2 [?] User Rank: Second Lieutenant
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| Thanks again for the input guys. I really hope I figure something out tonight or tomorrow. I want to drive up to phoenix to visit some friends and maybe go say hi to buellparts guy and show off my exhaust. Yeah by the way the latina girls here in Yuma are WILD! | |
| Posted: 13 Aug 2008 22:57 | [?] |
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Moderator Currently Offline Join Date: Jun 2007 |
Posts: 2627 Reputation: 49 [?] User Rank: Five-Star General
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| are you getting an the signal if a trouble code is stored or an unidentified error? | |
| Posted: 14 Aug 2008 00:20 | [?] |
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Registered User Currently Offline Join Date: May 2008 |
Posts: 28 Reputation: 1 [?] User Rank: Second Lieutenant
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| i was reading through what you did Yuma and was wondering if you Ohmed the wires out to ground/other wires for the inginition circuit if that is where your problem is. This would defently eliminate any problem being in the wires. You would need an ohm reader and a service manual and possibly that girl to lend a helping hand lol. Good luck man! | |
| Posted: 14 Aug 2008 00:34 | [?] |
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Registered User Currently Offline Join Date: Jul 2008 |
Posts: 22 Reputation: 2 [?] User Rank: Second Lieutenant
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| Lefox, i dont have a code reader, but when I turn the key in the "on" position the only lights that are on are the neutral light and the oil light (no check engine light). This is of course with a blown fuse....When I put a new fuse in, if i'm not mistaken, i beleive the check engine light turns but almost instantaneously turns off when the fuse blows. | |
| Posted: 14 Aug 2008 01:16 | [?] |
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Registered User Currently Offline Join Date: Mar 2008 |
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Yeah, its gotta be hot as hell there right now, one of my older brothers lives there. He just retired from the Marine Corp. and was stationed on the base there in Yuma. He always complains about the heat...
Keep us clued in on what comes up with the bike. I've really got to know now.. |
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| Posted: 14 Aug 2008 16:11 | [?] |
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Registered User Currently Offline Join Date: Jul 2008 |
Posts: 22 Reputation: 2 [?] User Rank: Second Lieutenant
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Hell yeah its hot as heck out here! I just moved here from Michigan 4 months ago and from what I have been told this has been an extremely mild summer averaging between 105-110 degrees since mid June. I guess usually once you hit May its at least 100 everyday and July-August 110 or 115+ is a normal thing.
Ok guys, I figured it out last night FINALLY! I started working on the bike right after I got home from the gym and I was hungry as hell but I was also determined as hell. I was working on the bike for about 90 minutes or so until I was ready to pack things up and make some dinner (it was getting dark and i was working on it in the parking lot of my Apartment complex). I sat down on the ground on the right side of the bike and decided to check out all of the harnesses near the front sproket. I started with the one that stuck out.....the vehicle speed sensor harness was grey and all the other ones are black. BAM! about an inch below the female connector the red and black wires to the connector both had bare wire exposed. I temporarily rigged it up so it will work and I never thought I would be so happy to hear that weird fuel pump sound it makes. I jumped up in the air with my hands up and screamed F*%K yeah and there was two middle aged women power walking who gave me a weird look. I will fix it correctly with some heat shrink wrap when I get to the store to purchase one of those pin extractor tools. |
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