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| Posted: 03 Jan 2010 03:15 | [?] |
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Registered User Currently Offline Join Date: Nov 2009 |
Posts: 197 Reputation: 13 [?] User Rank: Captain 
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since a couple of you asked, as promised I am posting this info. I can't give 100% feedback on this yet as I have not finished fine tuning it yet but I will keep you posted. as I stated in my muffler mod post; even with air box delete, K&N filter, outer air box cover mods (for more air), & a straight pipe, I am still able to run a little on the rich side (much more available if needed), and my bike has never had this much torque & power! 
Here is a link to the most informative write-up on this product that I have found: http://www.allproducts.com/manufacture100/mag ... I will post more info once I have it completely tuned, but I will say that once you find what you think is that "sweet spot" you can then make very small adjustments to make it even sweeter (this is where I am now) Just to let you know, I was out today (high temp 25F burrrrrrr) and just happened to crack it open while cruising at 4000-4200 rpm in 2nd gear, YES, SECOND GEAR! (I say that because I heard that it couldn't be done on a buell) and the front end came up so fast I almost had to go home & change my pants Yes I was sitting down on the seat, no I did not pull up on the bars or preload the suspension, I was not expecting it at all. Is this normal for a properly tuned buell? Or is what I've been hearing about buells not being able to do wheelies in 2nd gear without clutch or standing and preloading the suspension true? either way, I LIKE IT! I am definitely not trying to push this item on any one, I just thought that to be able to tune an 08 for under $60, it was worth sharing 
so anyway, here is a pic of this unit installed on my bike. I put it up under the front fairing bracket, easy to get to, wire, install, & make any necessary adjustments. 
as always, let me know if you have any questions 
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| Posted: 03 Jan 2010 03:34 | [?] |
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Registered User Currently Offline Join Date: May 2009 |
Posts: 245 Reputation: 14 [?] User Rank: Major 
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| I was looking at this thing. I did a search on Ebay and found that there are over 100 different ones on there. Let me ask you something. Do you know if this is kind of a univarsal deal or is it some how vehicle specific? The reason I ask is because I would eb attempted to get the remote adjustability for the extra $25. Then I could adjust on the fly. | |
| Posted: 03 Jan 2010 03:35 | [?] |
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Registered User Currently Offline Join Date: Apr 2008 |
Posts: 1086 Reputation: 46 [?] User Rank: Four-Star General 
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| I got the same results when I put on my LC-1 wideband O2 controller. That was 200 bucks and a pita to install. Give us a long term update. Im interested to see similar results on other bikes. | |
| Posted: 03 Jan 2010 03:56 | [?] |
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Registered User Currently Offline Join Date: Oct 2009 |
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Bolt08 that sounds to good to be true. It is to cold here in St Louis to do any work on my bike, but I will def keep this on my mind for spring.
How was your top end, or did you not go that fast do to the cold? |
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| Posted: 03 Jan 2010 05:29 | [?] |
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Registered User Currently Offline Join Date: Nov 2009 |
Posts: 197 Reputation: 13 [?] User Rank: Captain
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tuneport67,
from what I know so far, it is a generic unit that works with all fuel injection provided there is an o2 sensor and IAT sensor. it basically uses your stock maps but modifies the signals to the ecu to make it richer which is what we need with modified intake & exhaust. GatorBuell, I will definitely keep you posted; I'm anxious to see how the fine tuning goes when the weather gets warmer. brightbuell, when I read the write-up on line I thought it was a little outlandish and too good to be true. I'm not saying that it is everything they say it is, but it richens it up and it gave me much more torque & HP! as far as top end; it appears that the torque band continues stronger higher up in the rpms and makes a lot more power. today I went to pass a car and went from 70 to 120 mph before I even realized what what was going on. How cold is it in St. Louis? it was 25 here today with a wind chill of 12. WTF is the matter with me??? 
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| Posted: 04 Jan 2010 00:15 | [?] |
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Registered User Currently Offline Join Date: Apr 2009 |
Posts: 37 Reputation: 1 [?] User Rank: Second Lieutenant 
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| So how do you go about splicing into the bike??? How long have you had it on your bike?? Do you think it would work the same with the Race ECU? | |
| Posted: 04 Jan 2010 03:42 | [?] |
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Registered User Currently Offline Join Date: Nov 2009 |
Posts: 197 Reputation: 13 [?] User Rank: Captain
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spliced it into the o2 sensor wire & the IAT sensor wire under the air box (that was the easiest location to get to) then gave it a power supply on & off with ignition. I have only had it on my bike for about a month. I will say that before I opened up my exhaust (straight pipe) I only noticed a little gain. as far as the race ecu; I don't know this thing only increases your current fuel quantity injected. if the race ecu already has you running rich enough then I doubt that it would make a big difference. But if you open up the intake and exhaust (allow much more air in & out) then much more fuel will help a lot I think there is something like 30 full turns of adjustment, right now I am at 9.5 so as long as I can put enough air in, I think I can keep dumping fuel too I am very anxious to see how it runs when the temp gets above 50 F. I only ran it once with the first pipe mod & the original air filter and it really seamed powerful that day. so now, I have all this power when it is 25 F, hope it gets better at 50 F & above.
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| Posted: 04 Jan 2010 15:16 | [?] |
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Registered User Currently Offline Join Date: Jun 2009 |
Posts: 588 Reputation: 5 [?] User Rank: Brigadier General 
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| Can i order the ones listed for other bikes? Or do i need to hunt down the buell specific item? I wonder if the jardine would actually increase the low end when coupled with this? | |
| Posted: 04 Jan 2010 17:19 | [?] |
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Moderator Currently Offline Join Date: Aug 2008 |
Posts: 2825 Reputation: 130 [?] User Rank: Four-Star General
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Quote: It'd help some maybe, but it won't exceed stock torque since most of the torque loss comes from that lack of backpressure from the free-flowing jardine.
I wonder if the jardine would actually increase the low end when coupled with this? |
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| Posted: 04 Jan 2010 17:23 | [?] |
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Registered User Currently Offline Join Date: Jun 2009 |
Posts: 588 Reputation: 5 [?] User Rank: Brigadier General
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| I hope someone comes out with a definite tuning method for the 08's. I don't have the funds to try different stuff lol. Does anyone have experience getting ahold of the XB9 ECM's that are supposed to be tunable when used on an 08 XB12? | |
| Posted: 04 Jan 2010 17:26 | [?] |
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Moderator Currently Offline Join Date: Aug 2008 |
Posts: 2825 Reputation: 130 [?] User Rank: Four-Star General
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| No personal experience - but here's a great thread from Xopti on the subject: Matched/Unmatched EEPROMs | |
| Posted: 05 Jan 2010 06:06 | [?] |
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Registered User Currently Offline Join Date: Dec 2009 |
Posts: 34 Reputation: Unranked [?] User Rank: Second Lieutenant
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| Keeping this info handy for the future. Thanks for the write up. | |
| Posted: 05 Jan 2010 06:18 | [?] |
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Registered User Currently Offline Join Date: Nov 2009 |
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Quote:
It'd help some maybe, but it won't exceed stock torque since most of the torque loss comes from that lack of backpressure from the free-flowing jardine. ok, please help me understand. I know that when you open up the back end (exhaust) you lose torque. However I always thought that when you open up the front end (intake) and increased the fuel intake as well that you would gain your torque back (and possibly more)...... on my bike, DEFINITELY MORE!
Stevenc150, could you please help me out, since you are a moderator you have far more experience and knowledge on this than I do. could you please give me an honest answer to the following question: Quote:
just happened to crack it open while cruising at 4000-4200 rpm in 2nd gear, YES, SECOND GEAR! (I say that because I heard that it couldn't be done on a buell) and the front end came up so fast I almost had to go home & change my pants Yes I was sitting down on the seat, no I did not pull up on the bars or preload the suspension, I was not expecting it at all. Is this normal for a properly tuned buell? Or is what I've been hearing about buells not being able to do wheelies in 2nd gear without clutch or standing and preloading the suspension true? |
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| Posted: 05 Jan 2010 06:45 | [?] |
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Moderator Currently Offline Join Date: Aug 2008 |
Posts: 2825 Reputation: 130 [?] User Rank: Four-Star General
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Quote: Not necessarily. Honestly, I utilize more knowledge from our BuellXB members, than my own.
since you are a moderator you have far more experience and knowledge on this than I do. As far as your question, I'm not a wheelie "connoisseur" so I'm not the best reference for that subject. But from what I've gathered in the past, most have to find a certain technique to get the wheel up, not just whipping back the throttle - so that may mean you're onto something. Have to say though, it would've been real interesting to have seen some Actual torque curve numbers off a Dyno - showing a before & after for the Dyno-Boost Module. Then one could do a true comparison for gains. |
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| Posted: 05 Jan 2010 17:12 | [?] |
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Registered User Currently Offline Join Date: Nov 2009 |
Posts: 197 Reputation: 13 [?] User Rank: Captain
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Quote:
Have to say though, it would've been real interesting to have seen some Actual torque curve numbers off a Dyno - showing a before & after for the Dyno-Boost Module. Then one could do a true comparison for gains. I know, I was just speaking to a buddy of mine about the same thing. i wish I had access to a dyno so that I could tell where I'm gaining & losing and what it was stock and how much each mod actually changes. I'll see what I can find, I know an old friend that has a bike shop & about 2 years ago he was talking about installing a dyno. Maybe I'll have to go back to the old neighborhood & wish him a happy new year
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| Posted: 07 Jan 2010 01:13 | [?] |
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Registered User Currently Offline Join Date: Apr 2009 |
Posts: 37 Reputation: 1 [?] User Rank: Second Lieutenant
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| So does the 07 have the same O2 wire setup?? Just wondering if this is a 08 and up mod only or what? | |
| Posted: 07 Jan 2010 02:57 | [?] |
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Registered User Currently Offline Join Date: Oct 2009 |
Posts: 232 Reputation: 3 [?] User Rank: Major
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Quote:
ok, please help me understand. I know that when you open up the back end (exhaust) you lose torque. You lose torque not because of a lack of pressure in the exhaust, but a change in the frequency of pulse scavenging. As the exhaust pulse passes the valve and enters the header, it begins to expand and speed up through the header. That expansion helps to pull fresh air and fuel into the cylinder during the brief time that both valves are open simultaneously. The important thing is that the pulse is expanding at the right rate to create the most negative pressure behind it just as the valves overlap. Now, multiply that by two. As the pulse enters the collector (the Y in your exhaust) it creates a negative pressure in the other pipe as it passes it's opening. This pressure helps to pull the pulse that comes from that cylinder, that helps to pull more air and fuel in for the next stroke. The key is that everything needs to expand at the right speed for the right amount of time. At low engine speeds, a longer exhaust provides more power, and vice versa. At very high engine speeds, the pulses come so quickly that they provide very little pressure to the other pulses, and spend very little time in the exhaust. At low engine speeds, the time between pulses is greater, and their net effect on other pulses is greater, as well. For this reason, a longer exhuast allows each pulse to act upon each following pulse with the greatest amount of its energy. With an open exhaust, the problem is not a lack of pressure, but a lack of tuning. As the exhaust pipe expands, the gas speed increases. As the pulse reaches the wide open part of your exhaust it no longer can act upon the following pulses because it is either no longer flowing through the system, or it is flowing at such a rate as to be ineffective. With that in mind, adding more fuel will not counteract the loss of pulse scavenging provided by a properly tuned exhaust, because the engine itself will no longer be as effecient at drawing in the air and fuel mixture. Adding more fuel will make you just run too rich, and adding more fuelling capacity will just go unused. All in all, this is why our bikes have the active exhaust, to have kind of the best of both worlds: a short path for high engine speeds, and a long path for low speeds. It is nice, but truly more gains would be seen with a dual path header, something that would change the length of pipe before the collector. |
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| Posted: 07 Jan 2010 05:14 | [?] |
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Registered User Currently Offline Join Date: Nov 2009 |
Posts: 197 Reputation: 13 [?] User Rank: Captain
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Quote:
So does the 07 have the same O2 wire setup?? Just wondering if this is a 08 and up mod only or what? I'm not familiar with the 07, but I think that they both have the same o2 sensor. if you check out the link i posted above, they say that this thing can be used on any system with an o2 sensor and an IAT sensor (car, truck, snowmobile, etc) I actually saw a great write-up somewhere on it where it was installed on a snowmobile, but I can't remember where I saw it.
afinley, was that the abridged version? Lol, j/k
seriously, I appreciate the fact that you are willing to share your knowledge. obviously you have plenty of knowledge to share.(this is what makes this forum so great!) I was aware of some of this as I have done some research myself on the aftermarket exhaust systems (all bikes, not just Buell or harley) and the design and reasons for the design. this actually helped me as I built my own exhaust, and then modified it too. all I can say is the difference in torque & power is night and day. my bike has never been as powerful as it is now and to be honest; I didn't think that it would be possible to get this much power from it. so needless to say; I AM FUNKIN HAPPY!!!
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| Posted: 08 Jan 2010 04:38 | [?] |
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Registered User Currently Offline Join Date: Oct 2009 |
Posts: 232 Reputation: 3 [?] User Rank: Major
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| Yeah, I just hate it when people say backpressure gives you torque. If that were true you could just shove a potato up your tail pipe (in a nonsexual way) and have a wheelie machine. | |
| Posted: 08 Jan 2010 06:02 | [?] |
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Moderator Currently Offline Join Date: Aug 2008 |
Posts: 2825 Reputation: 130 [?] User Rank: Four-Star General
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Quote: Me too. Yeah, I just hate it when people say backpressure gives you torque. 
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| Posted: 01 Mar 2010 23:41 | [?] |
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Registered User Currently Offline Join Date: Jan 2010 |
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Quote: you could just shove a potato up your tail pipe (in a nonsexual way) and have a wheelie machine.
ROFLMAO!!!! |
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| Posted: 02 Mar 2010 00:55 | [?] |
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Registered User Currently Offline Join Date: Jan 2010 |
Posts: 30 Reputation: Unranked [?] User Rank: Second Lieutenant
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It's simply too good to be true...
No mods to fuel injection, other than the gadget? So, OEM fuel maps. Please, say more about tuning process. Just turn screw/test/turn screw/test...? Smooth response @ throttle changes and @ cruise? |
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| Posted: 02 Mar 2010 01:26 | [?] |
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Registered User Currently Offline Join Date: Jul 2009 |
Posts: 34 Reputation: 2 [?] User Rank: Second Lieutenant
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OK, I'm not an expert on tuning exhaust systems, but I remember a few things from gas dynamics classes back in college. First thing is that there is no such thing as "negative pressure." Pulling on a gas is less possible than pushing on a rope. Second expanding a pipe actually slows the flow. A venturi demonstrates the opposite effect. The tuning pertains to the relationship between the engine frequency (RPMs), the accoustic resonance frequency of the pipe, and trying to maximize the effeciency of flow through the system. If I remember right from my XB maintenance manual, the interactive exhaust system switches from long to short and back to long as the rpms climb. Ultimately, you're limited by the size of your pump and atmospheric pressure. Therefore, the only answer is that you need a blower.
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| Posted: 02 Mar 2010 04:43 | [?] |
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Registered User Currently Offline Join Date: Nov 2009 |
Posts: 197 Reputation: 13 [?] User Rank: Captain
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aptbldr,
correct, no mods to fuel injection and stock (OEM) fuel maps. basically all you are doing is telling the ecm that the exhaust has no unburnt fuel (so the engine is not running too rich) and the IAT is telling it that it needs more fuel. by turning the screw you are just adding more fuel to your stock map by percentages. all this thing does is compensate for mods that will make your bike run lean, like K&N & exhaust mods. so to answer your question; yes, very smooth at all throttle positions and acceleration is very responsive weather light or heavy. Hope this helped.
jeff m, I think the interactive exhaust valve is open under heavy acceleration at low rpm, closed at mid range, open again at high rpm. & yes, very limited by the size of your pump! but that's what makes mods so much fun; trying to get all you can get out of that pump (without hurting it of course) and no i don't need a blower, i would hurt myself! lol. long story short: I am very pleased with the results & performance thus far!
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