This would be correct. I may try the DLG-1 if I can get someone at Innovate to answer the dang phone.
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This would be correct. I may try the DLG-1 if I can get someone at Innovate to answer the dang phone.
The info in this link supports my above statement, seems people have data logged and proven that it does in fact change the values for fueling. I can't say one way or the other for sure as I have never done this or knew anything about it before yesterday. You should be able to verify this by data logging a ride on stock 02 target values with stock map then change target 02 value to .51 and do the same data logged ride. Compare the cell values between the two logs and the .51 log should be asking for more fuel compared to the other. If you do try this report back with your findings.
Not sure then... this user was also in the thread you linked above and no such statements were made there. Having had a hand in making ECMspy, you would hope he has insight as to why the values can be modified and what is accomplished by modifying them.
One of the first discussion we had in the begining of this post was about the relevance of the EGO correction numbers in the open loop cells of the map. AZ also explained that EGO was still "there", it was just a matter of the ECM discarding it while in open loop.
However, I have just realized that this info is perhaps wrong. At least that is what I just figured while playing back my last fridayīs datalog.
Iīll try to explain you what I saw but itīs quite difficult to me as a non native speaker of english. Iīll do my best. :)
Check below one screeshot of the datalog, a window that show EGO correction in black, TPS load in blue, RPM in red:
Attachment 6608
As you can see, TPS is at 212 and climbing...one 1 second later and it goes all the way up to 255 (max). Take a look what happens to EGO from that point on. It "freezes" at 96.900, which was the last correction applied before the WOT condition. And what happens on the History Tables, which we use to apply corrections to the map? Check below:
Attachment 6609
The 96.900 EGO correction populates the History Table and make us believe the ECM was truly applying this correction at that time, which is not true. It just repeats the 96.900 value because it was the last example of EGO available, but in fact EGO is clearly unavailable at that time.
This made me realize that tuning based on EGO is definetely worth only inside closed loop and absolutely worthless for the open loop. It does not give any idea on what is trully going on there.
And just to give some more subsidies to our discussion regardind the o2 sensor, look what the stock narrow band showed during that exact same time, while EGO freezed at 96.900:
Attachment 6610
o2 voltage, in red, kept quite steady at around 0.7-0.8v while TPS was full at 255.
And the official answer from innovate is.... NO. No simulated narrow band output at all from the DLG-1 and also, none of their products are weather resistant. Guess I will be looking elsewhere.
Bought another Wego-3 dual wideband today with a remote waterproof display. Pics to follow in a few weeks or so.
Hey not leaving you hanging here, I just have work to do so somewhat delayed. I got a bluetooth dongle from Cole so I can do some of this research myself as well now. I highlighted both programs from your first post of this thread, can you reply with what version of both programs you are running? Did you buy mega log viewer? If you found it can you provide a link? I have ECMspy (not mono version) and TunerproRT, I thought I had megalog but I can't find it.
Also I found some very good info from this link http://www.buellxb.com/forum/showthr...-tunning/page8 specifically the first post and page 8. I know you have read over the tuning guide but there is some really good info in there as well. http://www.ecmspy.com/tgv2/guide2.shtml#7.%20Methods The theory in the tuning guide states that if 100% fueling is met this is equal to 14.7:1 AFR's which is the target for the narrow band / closed loop. When open loop is triggered the value goes to 105% with an AFR value of 14.0:1 and WOT is a value of 110% which is 13.5:1 AFR. Also interesting is the narrow band voltage graph in the tuning guide is similar to the one I posted a few posts back except the value for stoich is an almost vertical line (also indicating there is no value adjustment to play with target AFR), you will see this in the linked tuning guide. Most of this info is in the appendix portion.
Also Have a look at this info explaining how the ECU uses closed loop learn to calculate open loop fueling as well as open loop looking at AFV value and NOT the EGO value to make adjustments.
5.1.3.2 Closed Loop Learn
The Closed Loop Learn region is a subset of the Closed Loop region and is where the global correction, the AFV, is calculated to account for all other uncertainties not addressed, these may include; ambient pressure and sensor deterioration. The Closed Loop Learn region occurs at about 40 70mph with a steady throttle and is shown in Figure 6.
The fuel is metered the same as in the Closed Loop region, except after 23 iterations of a difference between EGO and AFV, the AFV is reset to equal the EGO correction. Note that the AFV is only calculated in this region when the engine temperature is between [ Calibration Mode Maximum Engine Temperature ] and [ Calibration Mode Minimum Engine Temperature ], see section 18.
Top of Section
5.1.3.3 Open Loop
Open Loop operation occurs outside the Closed Loop and Closed Loop Idle regions, see Figure 6.
Open Loop fuel is metered as in Closed Loop, substituting the AFV instead of EGO correction and applying an open loop factor, [ Open Loop Default Correction ].
The Open Loop region covers the TPS and RPM which are encountered during a transition from Closed Loop to Open Loop WOT and during deceleration. For the former, the AFR needs to provide a smooth transition to WOT and for the latter, the AFR needs to be very lean to ensure the engine returns to idle quickly, to increase the engine braking effect and to reduce the chance of popping and banging in the exhaust.
5.1.3.5 Open Loop Learn Function
A neat little ECM function is the Open Loop Learn.
This uses the O2 sensor to detect rich or lean running conditions and operates in two ways:
If, during a decel, the ECM detects a rich mixture, the AFV is temporarily reduced.
If, at WOT, the ECM detects a lean mixture, the AFV is temporarily increased. This is shown clearly in Figure 7.
For decel operation, the following parameters are applicable:
[ Deceleration Learn Maximum RPM ]
Upper RPM for Open Loop Learn (decel)
[ Deceleration Learn Minimum RPM ]
Lower RPM for Open Loop Learn (decel)
[ Deceleration Learn Minimum Duration ]
Minimum number of cam revs for validity
[ Deceleration Learn Minimum Readings ]
Number of decels where mixture measured as rich before AFV is reduced
For WOT operation, if the mixture is lean, the AFV is increased. The following parameter is applicable:
[ Open Loop Enrichment Delay ]
Time at which mixture is lean before increasing AFV
This function can be enabled/disabled through the [ System Configuration ] Byte, see Figure 8.
Check corresponding figures 6 and 7 for great visual to go along with this data.
Hello buddy.
Well I have Ecmspy for mono as my bike is a 2008 and the older version doesnt work. My TunerPro is the RT version and I downloaded the latest version from its website. Also you have to download the Buell I/O plugin at TunerPro website and definition files for your ECM at ecmspy.com.
Megalogviewer is available at the developers website and yes it's not a free software. You have to pay a license to gain full access. I just kept the demo version which is usable, but lately I havent been usin its VE analyzer for tuning. Thats because it comes with a default AFR table for Buells which is not suitable for the maps, it wants to make it richer than 14.7 inside closed loop.
So because of this I've been datalogging with ECMdroid and just reading the log in ECMspy, found it easier than datalogging with a laptop to be able to run on TunerPro.
Sure. Daytona Twin-tec WEGO 3. I went with the smaller version this time, no built in display.
http://www.daytona-twintec.com/WEGO3.html
"111004
WEGO IIID Wide-band Exhaust Gas Oxygen Sensor Interface Kit (Dual channel interface unit with 0-5V analog AFR outputs same as above, except harness length 42" for both channels. Includes two Bosch LSU 4.2 oxygen sensors, and two 18 x 1.5 mm weld nuts)
$488.00"
I also ordered a dual display gauge to mount on the handlebar.
http://www.egaugesplus.com/dual-wide...uel-ratio.html
I ran the dual display unit on one of my 1190's for a couple of years with no problems. I wanted the smaller one for the SX though, it has to fit under the seat somewhere since I don't have a fairing to hide it behind this time. A small gauge I don't mind, but a huge display, not happening this time around.