View Full Version : HD at it again

05-03-2010, 02:58 PM
Hope this isn't a repost. I did a search and found nothing.


05-03-2010, 03:05 PM
Jerks.... next they will consider moving to Mexico I'm sure Keith W. wouldn't see a problem with that move.

05-03-2010, 04:00 PM
Yep their a bunch of ass-bags[down]

It would be like a Toledo without Jeep (or Tony Packo's)

On a side note I live near Toledo and Tony Packo's if the bomb[up]

05-03-2010, 04:39 PM
Here at the plant in York, PA they where going to leave to KY. If I'm not mistaken and please correct me if I'm wrong, after everything was said and done the workers are not getting a raise for 7 years.

05-03-2010, 04:48 PM
nothing those sleazy douches do can suprise me.

05-03-2010, 05:03 PM
Two words:

Screw them. [mad]

What this is going to turn out to be is a ploy to wrestle economic concessions and incentives from the State of Wisconsin and the City of Milwaukee. Remember, these jagoffs tried to get bailout money from the Feds to save the financing arm from the stupid policies that they put in place to prop up sales of motorcycles that were starting to stack up from over production.

If they die, let 'em. Apologies to those whose jobs are affected, but this company dug their own hole. If they go offshore with production, they'll see a drop in sales like they never dreamed. And then they'll die anyway, leaving the public holding the tab (remember Excelsior-Henderson?)

05-03-2010, 11:38 PM
According to H-D, it could save millions of dollars per year by changing locations due to reduced costs associated with labor contracts and scheduling flexibilities.

So..... I'm confused how a 'home grown American company' doesn't feel the screwing over their 'home grown American employee's' doesn't contradict the American image they're trying to sell?? If they're going to pick up and move their entire operation because they'd like to get out of treating their employees well, they might as well just move overseas. I know unions aren't great for business, but when you make a ****ty product, and are surviving 100% off the fact that people want to buy your image, you'd do better not to make yourself look like a jackass. The only reason Walmart gets away with it is because people are too cheap to care who's screwed over in the process of their shopping, but that's really not what HD has going for it.

05-03-2010, 11:51 PM
Thank you Labor Unions for putting people out of work.

05-15-2010, 07:06 PM
samiam, i live in oregon, oh. and yes packos ruels!

05-15-2010, 07:17 PM
The York workers got to choose between HD moving or sign a HORRIBLE contract (pay cuts, benefits cuts, buildings closed, more outsourcing, and 1/2 of the workers cut, ...), and the exact thing is happening/going to happen in WI.

05-15-2010, 07:18 PM
ctmallam-wow you blame the workers!!! for making a good wage!!! that's F-up, coming from a company that paid 100 million dollars to shut down Buell inc., in the worst economy since the great depression. Harley had a buyer to take this division on (can/am)but choose to take Buell to its grave at a 100 million dollar price tag [mad]

05-15-2010, 07:44 PM
Thank you Labor Unions for putting people out of work.

Yeah man I think you completely missed the point of this one. Labor unions are meant to keep workers from getting screwed over. HD on the other hand is so intent on making some cash that they're actually willing to pack up and move else where just to take back what their employees have worked for. If there wasn't a union they would've just cut their wages and screwed their schedules. Union or not this is because HD is looking to make some cash at the expense of their workers.

05-15-2010, 08:56 PM
yea, I guess thats why the auto maker with the largest, strongest,union work force of any company in the history of this country ,didnt need bailing out and owes its sucess to paying its employees 2. dollars a day more than its competitors at the very start of its sucess. FORD and the worse thing for buissness is when people dont earn enough money to buy products made in there own country. but hey,dont worry it will all just trickle down some day,keep waiting,its working great.

05-15-2010, 09:07 PM
labor unions. what a joke.

05-15-2010, 09:49 PM
labor unions. what a joke. Why is it a joke? Protecting workers rights is funny?,I don't get it. Bargaining a decent wage and benefits for your family ,is that hysterical?. What is a joke is a corporation closing shop ,dump there work force ,with no obligation ...but pay out mega bonuses to CEOs (millions)..Race to the bottom is coming!!!!

05-24-2010, 04:05 PM
if they did move over seas people will still buy them. nobody sticks together. unions are dying because no one sticks together. outsource harley it'll be like buying a harley-kia. still made in the state but not really.

05-24-2010, 04:08 PM
i strongly agree with boreas. way to go.[up]

05-24-2010, 04:30 PM
Why is it a joke? Protecting workers rights is funny?,I don't get it. Bargaining a decent wage and benefits for your family ,is that hysterical?. What's kinda funny, is even the Sorry workers get their rights protected and the same wage as those that bust their butt. At least in a non-Union shop, you can drop "dead-weight" like that without wading through the Union bull-crap. Just my 2 cents.

05-24-2010, 04:37 PM
I think unions are like cops, a necessary evil. without them things would surely be worse for everyone. however, how much is... the guy holding the "slow" sign on the side of the road (for example) really worth? Unions get some people paid more than they should be paid and employers know this. They also seem to protect the lazy from the employer to some extent. Im not union and have never been and my wage is fair in my opinion. However, when business is slow, I make less (I am paid based on output). Im sure it could be better, but then when things get slow, lay-offs would surely come for me which Ive not seen yet.

05-24-2010, 08:01 PM
I have worked for both union and non-unionized companies. While I agree that the ideal of a union protecting workers rights is worthwhile, in reality what often happens is that the union handcuffs the management in ways that prevent the company from remaining competitive. In a global economy like we have today this is dangerous to the long term health of a country. You can see this when you compare the autoworkers in my area, the non-union (Toyota, Honda) are in a much better position than the unionized factories (GM,Chrysler). In a economic downturn like we recently had you can see a reality check with the unionized workers, realizing that the security the union promised is just not there.

I still think that the best business models that exist involve a high amount of employee ownership, involvement and empowerment.

05-24-2010, 08:09 PM
What's kinda funny, is even the Sorry workers get their rights protected and the same wage as those that bust their butt. At least in a non-Union shop, you can drop "dead-weight" like that without wading through the Union bull-crap. Just my 2 cents.

Agreed. Imagine how expensive everything would get if the Chinese unionized. Ha! Fortunately for us Americans, China's labor laws give zero consideration to the workers. HD blows, let 'em sink. I feel for the employees, I am laid off since Whirlpool is moving to Mexico next month....The last contract signed included pay cuts, outsourcing, etc. yet they are moving. It will never end as long as we purchase foreign made goods or get used to making 2 bucks a day. Harley-Kia haha!

05-31-2010, 12:36 AM
A couple of points - they have never been able to unionize any of the US Honda or Toyota factories. Why? Because the companies treat the employees fairly and pay a decent wage so why would they want to pony up union dues?

The unions are needed only in companies that don't give a damn about their employees (such as H-D proved they didn't give a damn about those who worked for Buell.

In Wandell, H-D hired a guy who doesn't ride or care about bikes and, with his history, doesn't give a damn about firing employees en mass.

And he certainly doesn't care about the longtime, loyal customers. He just caters to the stockholders.

Willy G must be so proud of the millions that he and the other owners made when they decided to go public! I hope the stock tanks and then no one will ever hire Wandell.

You have to wonder if Buell would've still been axed had H-D not made the stupid decision to buy MV Augusta for $108 million. They want to sell it now, but they will lose millions on this ignorant nonsense.

What they bought was a line of $50K sport bikes that are no better than their $10K Japanese competitors, and the exact same ancient, decrepit factory that they sold for CHEAP forty years ago where the H-D (Aermacchi) Sprints were built.

Dumb and dumber.

06-02-2010, 06:02 AM
Jobs don't belong to employees. They belong to the company and it's shareholders. If you own a business, you have the right to set the pay and call the shots. Just like you have the option of working there or not. A business is about turning a profit.

"Labor unions no longer have the clout that they once had. In the old days, the unions could hang their hat on safety issues, benefits, and wages and could hold a company hostage. Now companies can just close their doors and move overseas. The unions have strangled themselves and have caused U.S. employers to become non-competitive in the global marketplace. The sad thing is that the union governance (mostly comprised of people from someplace else who earn high salaries themselves) are not only hurting the company and its employees, but they also hurt the economies of the cities and towns where they organize by causing more closed businesses and less money to spend in the local economy. They care little about the people they represent. Unions have become the "big business" that they used to rally against; organizations that only care for the almighty dollar and don't care about the workers."

We are all guilty for our Country's demise. Ever shop at Walmart or buy a foreign car? If HD does move overseas, people will still buy them. Most people don't care where a product is made as long as it's affordable and has some quality control.

06-02-2010, 05:39 PM
man i hate small minded cocksuckers who bash unions without knowing **** about them. go ask erik buell what he thought of his employees. THE UNION IS NOT THE ****ING PROBLEM!!!
the problem lies within the management of harley and the tax laws of the state/country.

06-02-2010, 05:50 PM
We are all guilty for our Country's demise. Ever shop at Walmart or buy a foreign car?
Bang ON!

the rich get richer, the poor get poorer and the middle class evaporates while the majority of society is brainwashed by the media...
but it's ok
Dancing with the Stars is on...

06-02-2010, 05:55 PM
Your right on with that.........

06-02-2010, 07:57 PM
In the case of the York PA plant, our Governor also threw millions of dollars at HD as incentive to keep them here...in addition to the **** contract the workers had to sign.

09-12-2014, 03:34 AM
Unions are necessary for many reasons but they need to be smart, not greedy. They need to have a comprehensive understanding of the world economy and educate their members on how far they can go with wages, health care, etc. However, I think workers should definately get a wage capable of supporting a lifestyle worth waking up and going to work. I don't give a damn what they make in China or Mexico. If you agree with their business acumen, move there.

09-12-2014, 10:43 AM
Holy thread revival!

09-12-2014, 12:22 PM
Geesh. Roofers local 20 KC, Mo baby! We all can agree that we have seen the outsourced labor in my field. I pay my taxes. We are certified with the Dept. of Labor. We play by the rules and do not fear investigation. Our contractors keep their books clean and treat their men right. Our public works projects are what we are known for for and trusted with. I can't tell you how many public schools, libraries, museums, power houses and courthouses we have worked on just because of our UNION label. The public that is educated on this issue knows that they are pay for what they get. Who better to build this country than the people that have enough pride and integrity to go through trade schools.
The auto unions are a little different in my opinion. The labor Unions I am talking about are the ones that build the infrastructure of this country.

09-12-2014, 12:35 PM
This thread is even from before Harley closed Buell.

09-12-2014, 04:18 PM
It's Friday, i say screw it all! Let go for a ride!