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Bordsnbikes
07-24-2008, 03:11 PM
So I called Royal Purple this morning to find out the final word from them what you want to put in your primary.

They guy recommended Max Cycle 20w50 or XPR. From the website,the Max Cycyle appears to be the best for our tensioners. No pictures of the rest of the primary for reference. However if it protects plastic like that, I would think thats a good sign for the rest of the materials also.

http://www.royalpurple.com/motorcycle-oil.html

He very specificly said to stay away from anything with anti-slip additives or anti-wear additives. Anti-slip is for the diff in a truck, they have wet clutchs in there that are designed to slip. If you get that crap on your clutchs they are also going to slip. The anti-wear will do the same thing. What he's saying is DO NOT USE ENGINE OIL in there, not even (perhaps especially not) anything synthitic. They have the anti-wear additives to maintain the life of your engine.

On a side note, not flame anyone, a lot of people are passing around technical info that may not be qualified to do so. Please everyone, stay in your lane or at least do some serious research and say "this is what I've found" as opposed to "this is how it is". I really like this site and have gotten a lot of info from it. I think the responsible thing to do is to make sure we are putting out quality info instead of what we think we know. For the most part I do believe we are putting out quality info, but the lesser stuff can really lead someone down the wrong road. When you surround bad intel with good intel, it looks that much more credible.

Now please, discuss at will. I am anxious to hear what other people are using and why.

Bordsnbikes
07-24-2008, 03:40 PM
I left out that the website says to use Max Cycle 10w30 in the primary and Max Cycle 20w50 in the engine.

dave_xb12r
07-25-2008, 05:09 AM
Thanks for the research Bordsnbikes! I'm going to try some royal purple tomorrow.

Bordsnbikes
07-26-2008, 01:27 PM
Anyone want to share? Come on folks.

mrdozer2you
07-26-2008, 01:47 PM
I run the 20w50 in both holes...no problems.

captain13ron
07-26-2008, 01:52 PM
i'm a fan of AMSOIL myself, it's faily easy to find test results online to veify that royal purple, moble 1, or amsoil is the best for your buel depending on where you look. but the point is any fully synthetic oil is far better than your standard oil. when i went to synthetic on my dirtbike i noticed it didn't break down (turn dark) between changes which i did every 3 hour's engine time. i i've convinced myself i get 3 to 4 mpg better gas mileage on my buell. as far as extra cost for this type of oil if you do the math it's my opinion that it cost less per mile and you don't have to physically change you oil near as often. im sold on synthetic![up]

Bordsnbikes
07-26-2008, 02:24 PM
I totally agree on synthetics in the engine. It creates a better coating to protect your metal parts that makes them run smoother which equates to better MPGs and longer engine life. What do you put in your primary captain?

captain13ron
07-26-2008, 05:24 PM
i use amsoil 20w-50 in my primary and 75w-90 sevear gear on my clutch side.

Roccodart440
07-26-2008, 09:36 PM
I have 20-50 amsoil in both.

06Xb12R
07-30-2008, 07:33 AM
So i have been thinking about switching my primary to 20w50 amsoil, i have it in the crankcase....is there any clutch slipping issues with this?

Phrogg
07-30-2008, 10:23 AM
I was told from a buddy who races his buell to put amsoil 20w50 in the primary. Which makes me doubt there would be any slipping issues with the clutch.

blackedout
07-30-2008, 11:11 AM
I have amsoil 20w50 in both and am very happy with the clutch, shifting and engine idle. Very pleased all the way around.

teh Nub
07-30-2008, 11:55 AM
Amsoil 20w50 in both... I'm happy...

dans03firebolt
07-30-2008, 12:27 PM
i use amsoil 20w-50 in my primary and 75w-90 sevear gear on my clutch side.

Can you tell me how you do this? You can only put one kind of oil in the primary area so you can't have 2. The clutch is built into the primary as is the tranny and it only holds 1 quart of oil. So please let us know how you are putting oil in 2 different places. The bike only has 2 kinds of oil. Primary oil that pumps the tranny and clutch and then the 20w50 that goes in the swing arm for the engine.

mrdozer2you
07-30-2008, 12:36 PM
Can you tell me how you do this?

The oils are seperate, one for the engine, one for the clutch. There are 2 drain bolts. The one under the swingarm and one near the front left side of the engine.

Roccodart440
07-30-2008, 03:16 PM
I think the clutch is actually smoother now with the amsoil

dans03firebolt
07-30-2008, 04:32 PM
The oils are seperate, one for the engine, one for the clutch. There are 2 drain bolts. The one under the swingarm and one near the front left side of the engine.

I know this but if you read his post "i use amsoil 20w-50 in my primary and 75w-90 sevear gear on my clutch side. " It states he is putting 20w50 and 75w90 in his primary. That can't happen do you see what I am saying? I know there are 2 drain plugs one for the primary one for the oil reservoir in the swingarm but you shouldn't be running 75w in your primary.

FIDOSOL
07-30-2008, 04:42 PM
clutch side, would be in reference to where the other drain plug is I imagine...

06xb9r
07-30-2008, 04:54 PM
I think he is calling the crankcase oil (swingarm) the primary oil

dans03firebolt
07-30-2008, 08:51 PM
If he is then he is not doing things right. You shouldn't run 75w in your primary.

captain13ron
07-30-2008, 10:08 PM
just got back on the site.......WOW! i cant believe i did this! here's what happened; i've had a couple of sportster's last few year's. and of course cases are seperated, well when it came time for oil change i called my amsoil guy and said i got a buell, he said; whats that, i replied it's got a hot SPORTSTER engine in it, so he replied, here's what you need, got the good's, went home, drained everything, filled my clutch first 1 quart 75w-90, then filled my swingarm with 20w50, didn't think twice about it. i bought the 20w50 in bulk so i didn't pay close attention to how much went in, but topped off and my oil level is correct. i plan on changing my oil right away. i hope new bueller's read this to learn from my f#^& up. signed em bear ass ed:(

Bordsnbikes
07-31-2008, 01:57 AM
This is what I'm talking about, I like the technical discussion going on here. Has anyone called Amsoil to see what they say? I would imagine that if your running Amsoil 20w50, which I assume is a synthetic lube designed for engines, the same would hold true that it has anti-wear agents and shouldn't be run in the primary. Captain, I doubt you did any harm, don't be so hard on yourself. People make mistakes. After talking to the royal purple guy and doing a lot of research, I am gonna recommend RP to everyone I come across and I will be switching to it just as soon as I can.

captain13ron
07-31-2008, 02:20 AM
yeh, thank's! i cant believe i did that!!!! cant blame the amsoil dealer though, i requested oil for a SPORTSTER, but i am going to see if i can get the next batch for cost. "we" should have looked at the application chart.[smirk]

Buellysses
07-31-2008, 02:31 AM
I have a friend that races legends cars. A mini race car with a 1200cc yamaha... they run nothing but Amsoil 20w50. (those engines share engine/trans/clutch oil) The bottle says it's specifically designed for v-twins and says buell and harley on it. *not that you can believe everything you read on a bottle.

I just bought a case of it from him and ran it in my engine. Seems to run a bit cooler, but it also seems to make more "harley" noises (valve train noises)...

dans03firebolt
07-31-2008, 12:29 PM
Don't worry about it Captain. It is ok just get that oil out of there asap. The Amsoil doesn't have any additives in it so you can run the same 20w50 in your primary that you do in the swingarm that is perfectly fine. Same goes for the RP 20w50. I was running BelRay Synthetic in mine and I think I am going to switch over to RP my next oil change which will probably be next weekend.

Thaloc
08-12-2008, 07:07 PM
Put RP 20w50 in both holes this mornin. The service guys said he shouldn't say cuzz he supposed to push Harley brand to the end, but that I made the best decision. Only rode around a bit, but the shifting clunk is much quieter. Also Neutral is right where it should be, was always a bitch finding it with that Harley shizz. [up]

shilohsk8
08-12-2008, 11:11 PM
I not saying I trust everything (or anything) the Harley dealer says about Buells but they recommend the Harley syn. oil for both holes. I have been running that aggressively for about 2000 miles now and it seems great. Also my bike has just been broken in so I just switched to synthetic.

Bordsnbikes
08-13-2008, 03:42 AM
I have a lot of faith in Harley oil for a Harley, but for a Buell I wanted to do the research. There's a lot performance and that requires a lot of protection. I would not say Harley oil would be even remotely bad, but I think RP would be better. Thanks for everyone's input, I really like a good discussion, especially about Buells.

shilohsk8
08-13-2008, 04:21 AM
I hear a lot of people swear by Royal Purple and Amsoil. I don't know where to get RP where I live But I'm sure if I looked hard enough I'll find it. I'm definitely gonna try Amsoil or RP next oil change and the points you brought up (Bordsnbikes) are very interesting and make sense. It's always good to do your homework, even better when someone else does it for you.;):D

Bordsnbikes
08-13-2008, 03:48 PM
Haha, happy to help out with homework. I am having trouble finding a good selection of it, Jegs has the stuff but you have to pay shipping. But sometimes you gotta pay for quality.

Thaloc
08-13-2008, 03:56 PM
At royal purples website they have a "Find a dealer" link, I found three places in my small town that sold it. Napa Auto Parts, Jerrys Auto Supply, and AutoZone. I paid 8 clams a quart, good luck in your search!

firechickenXB9R
08-13-2008, 05:01 PM
I have been running Lucus 20w50 in both holes and i really like it. And it is LUCUS great stuff. Just another Idea.

Bordsnbikes
08-13-2008, 11:07 PM
I haven't heard much about Lucus oil, but a lot of the additives they sell that are supposed to be awesome (like the one with the display with the gears and the oil that reachs to the top gear and looks so wonderful) are not. They cause cavitation like it's going out of style, which means terrible protection.

firechickenXB9R
08-29-2008, 03:50 AM
I have always ran Lucas in all my bikes and cars and have Never had a problem. Took my car into the shop for a leaking timing gear cover and he ask when the timing gear had been changed. When I told him that it had never been changed he was shocked. said with 100,000 miles I should be replacing the tensioners and the chain. There was hardly any wear on the tensioners. I have been sold every since. Just my observation. Lucas fuel treatment is great to.

firechickenXB9R
08-29-2008, 03:55 AM
Here is what the service manual said about what oil to put in the great Buells we so love.

Table 1-5. Recommended Oil Grades
HARLEY-DAVIDSON TYPE VISCOSITY HARLEY-DAVIDSON
RATING
LOWEST AMBIENT TEMP
°F
COLD WEATHER
STARTS BELOW
50° F
H.D. Multi-Grade SAE 10W40 HD 360 Below 40° (4°C) Excellent
H.D. Multi-Grade SAE 20W50 HD 360 Above 40° (4°C) Good
H.D. Regular Heavy SAE 50 HD 360 Above 60° (16°C) Poor
H.D. Extra Heavy SAE 60 HD 360 Above 80° (27°C) Poor

2003buellxb9s
09-11-2008, 05:06 PM
so amsoil and rp don't have any additives that cause it to be a risk in the primary... what about Mobil 1? does it have the feared anti-slip or anti-wear agents?

Bordsnbikes
09-12-2008, 12:57 PM
If it's designed as an engine oil then yes it has anti-wear agents. They may make something that doesn't have that in it. Check the website or give them a call and they will give you the skinny. Anti-slip comes in gear oils designed for differentials with limited slip in them.

2003buellxb9s
09-12-2008, 07:04 PM
I posted this on another thread but am just thinking it also kinda applies to this thread:

Well, I just opened the transmission up to check it out and although the level looks good, I think the fluid itself is all jacked up. I've never looked in a transmission before, but the most "liquid" of the substance inside was a true gray color and then there was this greyish yellowish substance more the consitency of cream that was caked on to the inside of the clutch inspection cover.

it didnt smell burned but it sure as hell looked strange and even a little of the creamy part looked a little bubbly so i guess burned.. damn.

i havent checked the clutch adjustment cause it doesn't "slip" or "drag"..

please help, that just scared me... I will definetly be draining it and will replace it with some royal purple maxcycle or whatever, but like, since its all sludgy do i need to do something else, like should i wipe that **** off the cover???

typeone
09-12-2008, 09:11 PM
prob water in the primary from the clutch adjuster boot. posted in your other thread too.. .

Bordsnbikes
09-13-2008, 12:54 PM
Typeones right. Some water got in there and its contaminating your oil. Nothing is probably ruined, but definately should be changed. Get some brake cleaner from the auto parts store and the gaskets to reseal it and drain it, wipe it out, then brake clean it to get out the last of the gunk. Then fill her on up.

2003buellxb9s
09-15-2008, 03:18 PM
will do. ist that the only place water could/should be getting in from? the boot?

Ralph2
09-22-2008, 12:05 PM
Good discussion here, following with interest. The boot on my XB9R clutch cable was very loose at the top and tight at the bottom, which meant any water just sat there seeping into the cable adjuster and hence down to the gearbox. Hopefully it's now cured with a few wraps of self-amalgamating tape round the top.

On a related note, I asked my HD Dealer for 'Oil for a Buell XB9R transmission/clutch' and he sold me Formula+ lubricant (Pt 99851-05). Now I see the handbook says use Sports-Trans Fluid (Pt 98854-06). Should I take it back and change it or doesn't it matter?

Bordsnbikes
09-22-2008, 12:52 PM
Ralph2, either will be fine.

Ralph2
09-23-2008, 07:44 AM
Thanks Bordsnbikes! Gotta get me that paddock stand and change the oil soonest.

2003buellxb9s
09-23-2008, 05:55 PM
what i'm worried about is even though i have the boot sealed now that there is still water in the cable.. not sure why but relubing it just seems like a pain

typeone
09-23-2008, 06:08 PM
buy a new one, they're better quality now anyway, even different than my '05 cable.

Bordsnbikes
09-24-2008, 02:40 AM
The amount of water that could be sitting in that cable is nominal. I wouldn't worry about that.

bad juju
09-24-2008, 06:16 AM
APPLICATIONS
AMSOIL Synthetic 20W-50 Motorcycle Oil is recommended for air or liquid cooled 4-stroke engines. It meets SAE 90, API GL-1 gear oil requirements and is recommended for transmissions and primary chaincases. AMSOIL MCV is recommended for Harley Davidson®, Buell®, Victory®, Ducati®, Aprilia®, BMW®, Triumph® and other motorcycles where 15W-50 or 20W-50 engine oils or SAE 90, GL-1 gear oils are used. Not recommended for shaft drive hypoid gears or where an API GL-4 or GL-5 gear oil is required.

GatorBuell
10-10-2008, 02:01 PM
More Info. I kinda shy away from Amsoil, It destroyed the transmission in my Jeep after a rep told me it was the best thing for it.
I like the Mobil 1 stuff. Its also what S&S motors uses in their V's.


Mobil 1 V-Twin 20W-50 Mobil 1 V-Twin 20W-50
Formulated specifically for four-cycle V-twin engines. Key benefits of Mobil 1® V-Twin 20W-50:

* Outstanding resistance to thermal breakdown.
* Optimized for hot-running, air-cooled engines.
* Enhanced lubrication for peak horsepower.
* Protects engines against harmful dirt deposits.
* Excellent transmission performance.

Mobil 1 V-Twin 20W-50
Mobil 1 V-Twin 20W-50 is recommended for four-cycle motorcycles that specify the use of a 20W-50 engine oil. It provides excellent performance in motorcycle engines that are designed with a common engine/transmission lubrication system or where the engine lubrication system is separate from the transmission system. In the case of the latter, follow the manufacturer's recommendation for the type of fluid to be used in the transmission. Mobil 1 V-Twin 20W-50 engine oil is also designed to provide the proper frictional characteristics necessary for wet-clutch engine/transmission systems. Mobil 1 V-Twin 20W-50 exceeds the requirements of API Service Categories SH, SG/CF, CD and has been fully tested, both on laboratory dynamometers and in the field, to provide optimum horsepower and acceleration.

Fully synthetic Mobil 1 motorcycle oils are specifically engineered for use in motorcycles. The formulations are based on the proven technology used in other Mobil 1 automotive products, yet they are optimized for the unique requirements of a motorcycle engine and/or transmission. You can use them with confidence, knowing they will protect your bike in extreme situations where conventional motor oils simply can not stand up, including extended high-speed operation and prolonged idling in summertime traffic.

For more information, see the Mobil 1 Motorcycle Product Data Sheet and Material Safety Data Sheet.

Bill2
10-10-2008, 05:14 PM
Gator Buell i also use mobil 1 V-twin in my new buell but don't you think your transmission going out in your jeep could have just been a defect,ect. or just one of those things? Its hard to go wrong with today's oils they came so far in the last 10+ years. I've put 100,000 miles between 3 bikes using 20/50 castrol oil GTX with no oil problems and there's better oil out there. Sometimes i think people make to big a deal with today's modern oils.

GatorBuell
10-10-2008, 06:03 PM
It was not until a few months later that I found out why the Amsoil destroyed my tranny. It was the High pressure additives and phosphorus in the oil deteriorated the yellow metal (brass) syncro gears in a matter of 8 months. It is a GL5 hypoid gear compliant oil and not to be used in older Asiain AX-5/15 Jeep transmissions. The rep should have known that it was a GL5 and not backwards compatible to GL3 oils. When I asked the rep he said that oil was the best available for my year, make and model Tranny. Live and Learn, at least now I know how to rebuild a 5 speed transmission....

Roccodart440
10-10-2008, 11:19 PM
Si is the amsoil ok? I've run it for about 3500 miles now and I like it.

GatorBuell
10-11-2008, 01:15 AM
Yea you will not have a problem in the Buell. Im just a little pissed at the company is all and I like Mobil 1 stuff so thats the direction I go.

Bill2
10-13-2008, 04:44 AM
Sorry to hear that gatorbuell, i'am pretty sure that GL5 hypoid gear oil 75-90wt. used in a buell or sportster will do the same deal in the primary. It eats away the yellow metal (copper)on the stator. I can see how that could happen with amsoil's anybody can be a instance distributor/dealer plan.

xtremelow
10-23-2008, 09:52 AM
gotta love Mobile1, I run it in my bike, show truck, and daily driver.

Brandon

Buell_Cru
02-21-2009, 01:59 AM
I run Amsoil 20-50 in my bike. In the Spring, Summer and Fall I change the engine oil every 2500 miles and the tranny every 5000 miles. In the winter I do the engine every 1000 to 1500 and the tranny still at 5000.

I have not had any problems yet. Hope all keeps going well.

SeabeeBueller
03-17-2009, 03:13 AM
So.... is there a big difference between the HD syn3 and RP? if so, since I just went to the syn3, does it matter if I immediately change to the rp or amsoil?

Offtrack1
06-06-2009, 03:47 AM
I run RP 20w-50 in both holes and no problem 9000 miles. 06 XB12Scg

RT Performance
06-08-2009, 06:00 AM
Royal Purple is avible through napa and auto zone but only seen 15-40 at autzone.
Most manufacture have switched to synthtic in there automatic transmissions and i have 5-40 rotella synthtic in both hole right now and adjusted the clutch while i had the cover off and it is the best my bike has ever ran i will be switching it to RP or amsoil once the temp begins to go up here to 20-50

RT Performance
06-10-2009, 01:36 AM
Not sure why you state not to run engine oil or synthetic in the primary since royal purple is a synthtic motor oil??
yes royal purple good stuff been in my truck for years and has specail additives but i so dont get that statement[confused]

flaya564
08-19-2009, 09:18 PM
I figured I put this on here cause I didn't want to start another thread but everyone is mentioning what they use but I'm a little confused. Everyone's mentioning the brand and weight of what they use but is it different from what goes into the engine? I'm using Mobil 1 synth for the engine but am trying to figure out what to use for the primary.

I'm I going to use the same Mobil 1 I put into the engine or a different one?

Stevenc150
08-20-2009, 03:03 AM
Most I've seen, including me, use the same in both. As long as it's a full synthetic Motorcycle oil, won't be any issues.

1stxb9r
08-20-2009, 04:49 AM
I run 20-50 synthetic in both holes and the fan runs a bit less, but hate paying almost $12 a quart.

joegriff1996
08-22-2009, 01:52 PM
$12 a quart? I paid 9.49 at autozone yesterday.

lighting
09-07-2009, 08:41 AM
Don't know about other bikers, but my 12S runs much smoother with RP 20-50, however it shifts better with Mobil 1 V Twin in the primary and since I aim to please it's what she gets. Please be advise that is the way I feel it in my bike, other may have different opinion(s) or preferences,

bardo688
10-12-2009, 12:30 AM
So amisol 20w-50 in both or HD in both???
its a harley thunderstorm 984 wouldnt hd oil be best[confused] and hows the royal purple been going? is it synthetic

Stevenc150
10-12-2009, 04:24 AM
I use RP Max Cycle 20W50 in both holes. Definitely recommend it, though as long as it's a Fully Synthetic Motorcycle oil, it's just a matter of choice. - Royal Purple Info (http://www.royalpurple.com/motorcycle-oil.html)

fahren
10-12-2009, 11:23 AM
If I were sure that Harley went out and found the very best products for performance and longevity for a Buell (or even a HD) bike, then I would use HD oils. However, HD does not make oil, and I am not at all sure they don't just contract out to whoever gives them the best deal to re-label the oil, with more regard to profit than to health of our bikes.

taildraggin
10-12-2009, 11:34 AM
I don't believe synthetic matters much in the primary. It's a closed, clean environment, with relatively light loads and all bits are soaking in an oil bath. Everything lasts forever in primaries.

Except the wet clutch plates. Obviously, they're designed for 20/50 engine oil, so friction coefficients are spec'd for some kind of motor oil. This seems to be the OEM stuff. (http://www.americansportbike.com/shoponline/ccp0-prodshow/17135.html) My stocker feels good with it and wouldn't feel qualified to make a change.

In the paleomesomotocyclic period, you could swell the clutch plates, or glaze them, or just get them 'sticking' if you used the 'wrong' oil. You don't hear that much anymore - materials are much better, but I'm not sure that the primary is the place to experiment with the latest super slick.

Stevenc150
10-13-2009, 03:53 AM
I'm not sure that the primary is the place to experiment with the latest super slick. No experimentation. Experience, both mine and others, is that it smoothes out shifting, helps with the "CLUNK" from the tranny, and less "shavings" on the magnetic drain plug. I don't know that I've heard of any negatives from using Full Syn. in primary.

GSXdoubleR88ciNINJA
10-13-2009, 04:51 AM
I dog the **** outta my bike. Bang on the rev limiter a good bit when I'm feeling froggy.
Mobil1 full SYNTHETIC V-twin 20-50, motor and primary. I'm not sure if Mobil1 has any engineers working there or not....
Smooth clutch, shifting, and motor. Over 19,000 on the ODO, still strong.

taildraggin
10-13-2009, 10:45 AM
Sounds like it works good. By 'latest super slick' I'm talking about fringe stuff.

Flashing comes from production, so it should reduce each change.

(Talking about the Buell/HD engineer that designed the clutch.)

DrogeN Omen
03-26-2010, 02:40 AM
what is the "Primary" you guys are talking about? is that Transmission oil? Gear oil? what?

also what does 'qt' stand for? is that Quart?

sorry in New Zealand we use the Metric system.

just trying to work out all the lingo...


[confused]

Stevenc150
03-26-2010, 03:25 AM
what is the "Primary" you guys are talking about? is that Transmission oil? Gear oil? what? Yep, the Trans.


also what does 'qt' stand for? is that Quart? Yep.

buellman09
03-26-2010, 03:40 AM
I switched to amsoil 20 50 and it made a huge differnce, ran a lot smoother, and cooler...amsoil is worth it in these bikes.

SchoolHouseCycles
03-26-2010, 12:15 PM
In my opinion oil is oil. As long as you are using the right type for the application and change it regularly, you are gonna be OK. Amsoil and Royal Purple... pyramid marketing schemes and sales BS. HD Syn 3 is good stuff, but as mentioned earlier HD doesn't make it. HD puts all fluids up for bid regularly.. same bottle, different refineries. I use Rev Tech oils in my shop. In dino we use their 20-50 pure. For synthetic, 20-50 MTP. Rev Tech comes from Kendall through Custom Chrome. Been using it for two years now with no issues.

CR06XB12R
03-31-2010, 08:05 PM
Has anybody ever run Amsoil 10W40 in the primary before? I'm planning to go to Amsoil 20W50 in the engine, but curious if anyone has tried the 10w40 in the primary and had good results.

bolt08
04-01-2010, 02:11 AM
Just an idea... Red Line makes a specific "Primary oil" this is not a transmission oil, they make a separate oil for bikes that require trans oil and believe me, it is totally different! I have used Red line in all of my bikes for the last three years(approx. 25,000 mi combined) and have been very pleased to date.

TooFst
04-25-2012, 10:22 AM
I just put Royal Purple in both holes... I'm just sick of going to Harley every time I need a quart or when it's time to change.. Any way, WOW. What a difference. I would have never guessed in a million years that my bike could shift that smooth. EVERY gear is better and the "clunk" from 1st to 2nd is almost gone. Prob. wouldn't even notice it if I didn't know it was there.