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View Full Version : High octane...always???



Leathercash
04-16-2007, 02:23 AM
Hi, I'm new to this particular forum and was wondering somehting: My owner's manuel says my 2004 Buell xb12S does best on 91 octane. Problem is, I can't find 91 ANYWHERE!!! So how about using something like 94 octane....is that ok? All replies are welcome,thanks!

mrdozer2you
04-16-2007, 12:39 PM
Yep 94 is fine. The higher octane fuels typically have more cleaners in them. Im guessing they recommend higher octane because chances of fouling things are less with better fuel.

maybebuell
04-16-2007, 12:59 PM
around boston 92 is the highest you can find...where you getting 94 oct

Mike
04-16-2007, 03:53 PM
i've seen 97 at one point in NH about 2 years ago. but i have not seen it since.
i can just imagine the price of that now a gallon.

buellxb
04-16-2007, 09:31 PM
My local dealer says to use the highest octane you can find, but I've also been told not to exceed 91 octane fuel. I think it has something to do with how your motorcycle is tuned. If you get a high-flow air cleaner you could probably do well with 93+ octane. If I had the race kit I would stay at 93+. I know there is a science to it, but I'm not qualified to say much more. I would like to hear the overall consensus as well. Any pros out there? What it is BPG?

maybebuell
04-16-2007, 10:06 PM
theres no power gain or loss with higher octane...alot has to do with motor temps and timing....buells run hot and higher octane has a slower burn or more controlled burn to help with timing to controll engine knock...if you want to burn a house down use low actane gas it burns faster and hotter

Leathercash
04-16-2007, 11:43 PM
Cool cool, I did fill up today and managed to sqeeze out the $3.89 a gallon price for what was 93 octane, and I have noticed no difference in performance as of yet. Good thing I ride a bike;) Thanks for the replies any more would be very helpful[up]

buellxb
04-17-2007, 01:54 AM
Wow. $3.89 per gallon? Premium is about $3 around here. Are you in California Leathercash? Buell has a lot of unique engineering as compared with other motorcycle companies. I wonder if any motorcycle company will every have the balls to make an electric bike?? Does anyone remember the Saturn EV1. That car had a 3.6 second zero to 60 mph. It was all electric. I bet the same smooth, clean power could be used on a motorcycle. I don't know, but I bet Buell could find a way to make it cool.

v12tiger
04-17-2007, 03:07 AM
Maybebuell.. about the 'no power gain with higher octane'. I've always known for higher octanes to produce more power. Consider a fuel like 110 for racing or 113. I always assumed that the higher octance implied hotter more powerful explosion thus more power. Maybe assuming is the prblm. Please edumacate me on this as I have no expertise in this subject or any other for that matter.

bahamasair
04-17-2007, 12:05 PM
Higher octane doesnt make more power it allows you to run higher compression in your engine which makes more power. The higher the octane the higher the compression ratio you can use without detonation or pinging. Race engines running without a blower or turbo will be from 11:1 to 14:1 which would destroy pistons if you tried to run on a lower octane gas.

mrdozer2you
04-18-2007, 05:26 PM
Most high octane fuels around me are for racing and contain lead. Im not for sure but I think its anything over 102 has lead.(maybe its 110 I cant remember) But I do know that higher octane contains more detergents = cleaner for your motor, less varnish and gum buildup, cleaner injectors. Also my old car was a 2000 Toyota Celica and right on the gas cap it said no less than 91 octane. I wonder if the car not having a fuel filter had anything to do with it. Do our Buells have fuel filters? If they do I havent seen one and I've had most of the bike apart.

maybebuell
04-18-2007, 05:52 PM
pretty much what baham said...to motors the same size one at 9.1 and one a 12.1....12.1 will run hotter air gas mixture will be compressed more to a point it wants to ignite without a spark from pressure and heet from top of piston...octane slowes it down till its time to burn at the right time,,usually when the spark plug ignite..timing....

Leathercash
04-20-2007, 01:41 AM
Mrdozer2you, we do have fuel filters, however they are never required service or replacing, they are permanent I believe.

slydwazer
04-22-2007, 04:05 PM
Leathercash -- use nothing but premium high octane fuel in your engine. Higher octane fuels burn slower than lower octane. Lower octane fuels burn extremely fast and create abnormally high cylinder pressures which can, and WILL, crack (or blow a hole in) your piston. The fuel mixture ignites BTDC and requires a certain amount of "burn" time. High octane fuels are most definitely required in higher compression engines because it is so tightly compacted on the compression stroke. Once ignited (BTDC), it needs to release its energy (controlled explosion) on the downward stroke (aka, power stroke) for maximum power. If it is burned too quickly, detonation will grenade your engine. There is no particular benefit from running a much higher octane (i.e., 110 octane race fuel), but there are severe consequences from running an octane rating too low.

tommy
09-04-2007, 05:50 PM
Hey folks im riding a 2000 X1,I have always run 110 racing fuel,dont have a problem getting it other than the $7 a gallon price.it smells good burning also.
Mine will cough at the light also,or act like it is loading up.
Im getting some oil residue in the intake pipe.Any ideas.im running the racing module and vance and hines exhaust,

buelltool
09-08-2007, 01:39 AM
fuel....smuel..... for the amount of gas buells hold....sacreligious to run anything than the best you can get. Even at today's prices still only about 10-12 bucks to fill. Here in the north, Sunoco has 94 octane....the bike loves eatin that.....

MrOrange
09-08-2007, 05:32 AM
Just a quick note on high octane fuels. High octane fuels tend to sit in the providers tanks longer than the regular or low octane gas. The chemicals that increase the octane and the other cleaners tend to become unstable in as little as 3 weeks. Sometime that unstable older fuel has can account for a "bad tank of gas". the reason I bring this up is that my XB9 will tolerate the regular stuff pretty well. actually really well. I have been regularly running it with ambient high temperatures in the low 90s. I think that if it was any hotter I would have to run the slower burning fuels though... BTW the thing about the bad premium gas was from a motorcycle web page--I'll get the URL for all to read on Monday.

MrOrange
09-12-2007, 02:13 AM
Sorry it took me so long to get the link (http://www.motorcycleperf.com/techtips/gasoline.htm). The article is a bit preachy but offers another aspect on gasoline.

Somthngfrce
09-12-2007, 02:56 AM
Great Article!!

midlifecrisis
09-12-2007, 03:43 AM
I used to run 108 octane in my Sportster back in the early '90s and it did run very well. it did have lead but my understanding was always if you had a catalytic converter you couldn't run leaded fuel but with out the catalyst you could. The problem was an older car (like my 1970 T/A Challenger 340 Six Pack) needed leaded fuel because it did not have hardened valve seats and the newer fuels destroyed them unless you fitted the hardened seats. At around 50 MPG run the best fuel you can. just ask LeFox what they are paying for gas across the pond and you'll be happy paying $3.50 per gallon.

buelltool
09-23-2007, 01:37 PM
hey m....orange...what's the octane of your regular?
And.....what are the symptoms of a "bad tank of gas"?

I run sunoco 94 maybe 90% of the time......depending on my location when runnin low. And just this week...couldn't get the damn thing to idle right...you'd set it after a long run only to find next morning either revin higher or not enough....weird.....maybe i'll try a lower pump gas that i know moves faster at the station. Stayed tuned.

btw...anyone check out "pulley swap"?
give a tid bit on changing the final drives. Would love to hear from someone with a Baker 6 spd. I'm done.

MrOrange
09-24-2007, 02:56 AM
Around Oklahoma City regular is 87ish. I do notice a off idle knock every once and a while on a hot day. Other than that my other choice is 91 for premium but with the cooler weather coming I will still try the cheep stuff.

I have an old Mustang with a 302 that is a touch over 10:1 compression. It had a tank of gas that was Euro 95 (RON) which I think that converts to 91 US octane. Anyway it sat for about a year and when I started it it would drive but Idle was crap, acceleration was not very good either. There was other factors as well with the car but the #1 was probably the stinky old gas.

I wish I could find 94 around here. My Mustang sure could use it.

mrdozer2you
09-25-2007, 03:19 PM
Sunoco usually has 94....Try BP they have 93.

HOVERJOCKI
11-06-2007, 12:57 AM
I have rebel gas stations here in Vegas and one or two of them have race 100 fuel....i'm gonna guess thats 100 octane...(not gone in to ask yet) but i'm also guessing that would be ok to run as well....????

Sawyer
11-10-2007, 11:00 AM
MrOrange - That was a great article, have you taken its advice and switched to regular and if so have you noticed any difference? I never really thought about the fact that high octane gas is rarely ever used (especially in the UK) and sits in the underground tanks in the gas station decreasing it performance.

MrOrange
11-10-2007, 02:20 PM
I have been especially now that gas is now over 3.25 a gal of 92 octane. It much cooler here in Oklahoma city area now and my XB9 has had no issues running the regular. I don't think I could of gotten away with it when I was in Phoenix a couple of weeks ago. Temps there were still in the high 90 so I ran 92+ octane. I lived in the UK for 8 year and remember paying 90 to 99 pence per liter which is a far cry of what I'm paying now in Oklahoma.

BuellPartsGuy
11-10-2007, 02:26 PM
I'm not trying to seem like an ass here guys, but the $0.15 difference between regular and premium shouldn't be this big of a deal. I would rather have the octane for my engine rather than the extra dollar in my pocket after a fill up. Come on guys, you are only buying at most 4.4 gallons. So you are only shelling out about $0.60 more just to put premium in. Does $0.60 really break your bank?

Sawyer
11-11-2007, 07:18 AM
I see what you're saying BPG and I agree, but from reading that article it sounds like by using higher octane fuel I could be doing more harm than good. That's my concern not the price.

BuellPartsGuy
11-11-2007, 04:35 PM
How would higher octane do harm to an engine that is designed for it?

Sawyer
12-03-2007, 07:45 AM
Read the article

BuellPartsGuy
12-03-2007, 03:46 PM
I read the article and too much of it is "what if" material. I didnt see a single thing about DDFI. Only carb bikes. Night a day differences when it comes to fuels.

Octane = resistance to burn. Higher combustion temps and compression require higher octane period.

The factory did the R&D on the engine, designed the engine for it and reccomends it. Using premium, to me, is piece of mind at a very small cost. Not to mention, I have seen the penny pinchers that use regular and ride Buells. One is in back right now getting some extensive engine work done. Others I have seen, the tops of the pistons look like they were sand blasted. You guys do what you want, I'm buying premium.

mister P
12-03-2007, 07:06 PM
Hi BuellPartsGuy, we get 94 octane here in the uk and my bike runs fine the only problem is it costs £14.50 -$29.00 to fill the tank. I try to enjoy every single mile, ride safe Mister P

badbandit12
12-04-2007, 02:21 AM
if you can get to a honda shop buy the VP racing fuel by the 5gallon containers ru4 I think I will have to go down the the shope tomorrow in the day light and read the can it's $60 ish but it's 97 octane with oxegin additives works very well and burns clean .

eicas
12-06-2007, 06:15 PM
Octane or Performance Number rating has nothing to do with the power of gasoline, only with the anti-detonation properties of the fuel.

Using a higher octane than called for will not get you more power.

If an engine gets more power with a higher octane rating it is because it was detonating, and that means you have a timing, lean fuel mixture, or a mechanical issue like the wrong spark plugs installed.

Amount of power produced is based on how much fuel is used and the BTU of the fuel, and all gasoline has the same BTU rating. Oil companies start off with the same basic crude oil product, then refine it into gasoline and add their "secret mix" of additives, these additives make the fuel more stable, burn cleaner, etc, but does not add power.

If you want more power you need to run at a higher compression ratio, higher rpm, increase displacement, etc. inorder to get more fuel into the engine, not go to a higher octane.

However, too low an octane rating can hurt or even destroy the engine in an extreme case.

Save you money and use the recommended octane.

maybebuell
12-12-2007, 10:02 PM
vmax fourms say run 87...motor is 10.5 compression....there saying running higher octain leaves more deposit on valves and pistions..?.....if it dont ping or knock with 87all should be fine.....vmax recomends 91 or higher...the word on all the sites is 87 is better for your motor.......but them again when i ran a harley i always used 92 93 oct

hodakaharold
08-08-2011, 08:22 PM
I have run 87 octane every so often, I don't notice any difference in hot weather, anyone else running 87 octane on a regular basis without problems?

jmill25
08-08-2011, 11:36 PM
@mr orange! Another OKC bueller, I'm actually southwest of OKC in Mustang, it's cool to know someone from around the area is on here too. Btw there's a certain gas station in Nichols Hills that sells 101+ gas, bought some a while back to run through the bikes to help clean em out, something around the lines of $7.50 a gallon for whatever octane I got, quite pricey haha

rockerphotographer
08-09-2011, 07:17 AM
I noticed this is a super old thread but I have something to say anyway....

Hot for some people is different than Hot for others. Hot for me is the friggin 120 degree heat we've had for a straight month in the mid-south. Hot for someone in the Northwest is 90 degrees. Not trying to say it doesn't suck for anyone. People are acclimated to where they live, bikes don't acclimate. Sooo, high octane for me in the summer, possibly lower octane in the winter. I'll be trying this out like the article said. I am SO looking forward to winter [mad] Riding is not so fun in this heat!

vanson1200r
08-09-2011, 09:02 AM
High octane fuels are for high compression motors. High compression=high horsepower=high heat. Low octane fuels will combust BEFORE the spark hits it usually while the piston is still traveling upward to TDC and that is when you hear “knock” or detonation or pre ignition. High octane fuels prevent this and they don’t provide any more power and are not cleaner than low octane fuels. Buells being air-cooled and somewhat high compression for a air-cooled motor they need a higher octane fuel even more so at high altitude or under a heavy load like going up a long hill. I don’t really know, I just make this stuff up because it sounds cool.

crxtasy169
08-09-2011, 10:28 AM
All octane does is change the lag time ( time from the spark till the time the mixture is burned). Too low of octane makes it burn up too fast and you don't get all the power due to the fact that you are not running a lag time or burn time that the manufacture has produced for that machine. 90 to 93 is the best for our bikes. Any higher and yes I believe IMO that you will start getting a build up of deposits.

Bullxb12r
08-09-2011, 03:25 PM
We had a customer bring his bike in the other day because he lost all power like his bike just shut off. After quite some time discussing what happened and didn't happen, the subject of octane came up. He said he had been running 114 octane race fuel in his bike ever since he bought it because (like so many others) he thought higher octane was better. This is a motor with around 9.5:1 compression. We took the head off and this was the result.
http://www.buellxb.com/buell_images/9185_20110809091307_L.jpg
Bottom line, If you are gonna run race fuel, your motor needs to be built for it. What he thought was good for his motor essentially nuked it

Livers
08-09-2011, 03:30 PM
114 octane did not cause that failure. I would bet money on that.

hodakaharold
08-09-2011, 04:06 PM
My 2007 XB12S seems to run the same with 87 or 91 octane,,,,I wondered if there were any long term effects for my motor to run the 87 octane.

I have lived on both coasts, the midwest by far is the most miserable, Texas, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Louisiana, Missouri, Kansas ( I live on Kansas) Very humid, brutal weather.
I would take the East coast weather any summer over Texas or the other midwest states. As for the dry climate of Arizona or California, very hot but more to my liking, dry climate makes it more liveable, winter and summer. I always wondered if my ancestors were wagon train dropouts, why else would they have settled here? Could not be the weather.

anrkizm95
08-09-2011, 04:34 PM
114 can cause that.seen that many times

uly luigi
08-09-2011, 06:09 PM
too much timing and a lean fuel mix, but not just the fuel, from my experience anyway, too high of octane will leave a lot of carbon in an engine if it is not built for it, it is just the residue from unburnt fuel, to run real high octane efficiently, you have to be at 12-1 compression or better, other wise you are not burning all of the fuel

DrogeN Omen
08-09-2011, 06:22 PM
I run my 07 xb12ss on 98 octane all the time. Used to run it on 91 but was hesitating alot.

anrkizm95
08-09-2011, 06:51 PM
race fuel carries more oxygen than pump gas so using a 114 race fuel for extended period of time and not adding fuel by rejetting or remapping can and will burn a hole in a piston.there is no reason to use anything over 100 octane in a buell and even that is a waste of money for most.people put race fuel in theyre bikes and the ass dyno says it runs 100 percent better.lean = power and lean f%$#s things up if you dont know what your doing

fakameanrepresent
08-13-2011, 12:43 AM
only 92 octane for my buell.

Iamarchangel
08-13-2011, 06:18 AM
Sheesh.

It's a temperature dependent thing. Higher temperature and hotter riding demands higher octane. Cooler temps and cooler riding can have less.

Commercial grades are not huge jumps in octane value but they do cover the ranges we need. Sunoco Gold is the preferred for most conditions.

My biggest problem is forgetting when I fuel the car and pressing the higher octane on reflex.

Oh, and I drove in the states last week. Your prices, just shut up, I thought the pump was broken, the cost difference was that much. We pay a lot more in Canada.

anrkizm95
08-13-2011, 06:39 AM
Oh, and I drove in the states last week. Your prices, just shut up, I thought the pump was broken, the cost difference was that much. We pay a lot more in Canada.

yea gas is pretty cheap compared to a gallon of anything else