Tuner Pro, ECMSPY, spark knock/detonation, exhuasts...

[kcander]

Hey all, first post here, though I've lurked on this site for the last couple years since buying my '08 Uly. Lotta good info here, glad to finally register.

Anyways, last few days I've been doing a bit of research on here, BWB, etc, trying to determine the best course of action. There's so much info to sift through and so many differing opinions, my head is spinnin'!

My '08 Uly (no engine mods) tends to want to give me a fair amount of pinging under hard-ish acceleration, and after my last ride of the summer I finally decided I should look into it. So, I've been trying to figure out whether Tuner Pro or ECM SPY would be a good way to address the issue. I'm always running premium fuel, so that's not the problem. I've read that people have tweaked their ECM to fix pinging/knocking, but I'm not exactly sure what the best way to go about it is. I'm certainly not a computer genius, but I'm at least somewhat technically savvy and I'm willing to take the plunge into the Tuner Pro/ECM SPY world if that's what it's going to take. Is this the path I should head down?

I've also been toying around with adding a little noise, most likely something like the Hawk or Special OPS that still uses the original can so I can continue using that as a jack point, and it seems to me that if I'm going to be allowing more air through the system, it'd make sense to also use Tuner Pro and/or ECM SPY to do that as well, no?

I've read that there are/were issues with tweaking the '08 ECM unit, but then I've read other posts saying that's not the case. Can anybody give me a definitive answer there, assuming that is indeed what I should be doing?

On a side note, I've been reading up and I'm leaning toward the Hawk exhaust since there appears to be an only-semi-loud option -- I often take longer multi-day rides and don't want something deafening. I know there's a ton of opinions out there on exhausts, but if anybody has any advice in the sounds-good-but-not-deafening, uses the original can department, I'd love to hear it, since more often that not guys are looking for louder.

So, anyways, any opinions on how I should approach this? If I'm going to buy a new exhaust, should I do that first, THEN do all the tweaking with Tuner Pro/ECM SPY and adress everything all at once? Or, should I try to eliminate the knocking with Tuner Pro/ECMSPY first, then worry about re-doing it for a new exhuast pipe later? Or, am I just barking up the wrong tree trying to solve my pinging issues by tweaking the ECM in the first place?

Any info/opinions are greatly appreciated.

[thumpin1203]

Kcander.. welcome to the forum, officially!

You are asking the same questions that nearly every bueller has asked and pondered throughout their ownership at one time or another.. my response, albeit "knee jerk" is this.. you can play around for "effect and experience" with different combinations of exhausts, intake, ecm programming etc etc to reach your desired goal.. however, if an immediate rideability improvement is desired and your ultimate goal, there exists a higher level of refinement available today in the form of an "over the counter" EBR ecm custom tuned to the exhaust and intake combo of your choice.. there are a number of excellent exhausts produced here in the usa and overseas, check which exhausts the EBR ecm supports, if that is the path you choose.. this "should" be your first purchase decision. Expect to spend a grand or more for the whole package. There is another route to take with an ECM tuning school by "Max" at the "tuniversity" he offers different levels of instruction to teach YOU to custom tune your ECM to your "specific" bike and modifications, (or with "your" datalogging, he will do the work for you..) This is arguably the the best path to rideability perfection, and knowledge of the inner-workings of fuel management. The up and growing "Twin Motorcycles" also offer ECM + exhaust combinations which are plug and play.. they are based in the Netherlands, but now have an aspiring outlet in Texas, so the dreaded shipping expenses should be coming down now & in the near future.

Best of luck with your choice!

[kcander]

Thanks for the reply Thumpin. There's a lot of info there...I guess the one question I'm really trying to find a straight answer to first is:

Can I use Tuner Pro and/or ECMSPY on my stock ecm unit to fix spark knock/pinging/detonation? If not, how should I go about fixing it?

Since the pinging is potentially damaging and scares me from riding the bike in the way it was intended, I think I need a solution to this before I make any other decisions. I'm a little unsure as to whether you're saying an EBR ECM would rectify the pinging specifically, or if you're just saying that it's the way to go once I decide what I want to do with my exhaust/intake setup. I appreciate the advice!

[2hy2ride]

There's a website called xopti that Guy seems well versed in the different tune programs and adapting it to the newest tech. He has a lot of info there too

[2hy2ride]

Ecmspy, tunerpro r full service tuners u can even tweak on the ebr ecm. Download the ecmspy tunerguide original and 2 its a good day or twos reading. Maybe a lifetime to fully comprehend

[kcander]

Wow, yeah...this is going to be a real sunnovabitch, isn't it? Heh. *GULP*

[thumpin1203]

Kcander.. "my" answer to your question is yes, the EBR ecm will solve your "pinging" with the added benefit of overall smoother(and cooler) running with enhanced power delivery.. so will a custom tune from Max, and the same from xopti.. however, I am going to refrain from comment on the modification of your stock ECM as there are many views and opinions on this that are best left to the pros in the field.. they all communicate well, especially Max, shoot off some emails.. you will get answers to what you are looking for!

[2hy2ride]

Its never a bad idea to go ahead and order ecmspy its cheap and easy then atleast you can have an idea of what's going on ebr tune or not. U can tell a lot from very little plus dtc scanning and system testing capabilities. That was well worth $40 to me when I was n ur shoes. Some of those On eBay include all the latest ebr maps for an extra $10.

[kcander]

Gotcha, Thumpin. I just wanted to make sure that the general consensus is that it's an ECM/fuel mapping related issue and not some other cause that I don't know about.

Sounds like my options are to either jump down the dark rabbit hole of ECM modding, or I can simply pony up for the EBR ECM and a Hawk exhaust to go with it and basically solve the pinging problem for about $500. Considering that I'm also looking for a little more noise (and the added performance and cooler running don't hurt), it sounds like that might be the best easy/economical option. I don't have $1000+ to drop on Buell parts, and from the sounds of it the modding stuff might be a little dicey...

[kcander]

So 2hy, what did you end up finally doing when you were in my shoes? You had pinging issues as well? What was your solution?

[kcander]

Thumpin, I think I mightve accidentally gave your comment a thumbs down! My bad, trying to view on my phone with a case of fat thumbs!

[2hy2ride]

I live in north Texas it gets really really hot after I port matched my intake manifold and cut up my airbox, installed my keda header/ homemade muffler my bolt would ping 3rd and 4th under hard accel I knew it needed a tune so I bought a cable. Id already been using tunercat for years for lt1 and ls and I knew and had the software for tunerpro (started as an lt1 thing) called tunepro and found out the guys a lightning owner and it was already running. I fixed the bike with more fuel on the decel and extra fuel in the rear. I had to learn to data log but its much easier now u don't need a cable anymore you can Bluetooth log with ecmdroid. I also added a modified RSS and cycle my fan sooner, longer. I never took away any ign advance. Lots of logging but that's my favorite part:D

[thumpin1203]

I mightve accidentally gave your comment a thumbs down! My bad

lol! yup, it looks like you did!.. ahh well, see what happens when I stick my nose in and try to help, ha haa!


I live in north Texas it gets really really hot after I port matched my intake manifold and cut up my airbox, installed my keda header/ homemade muffler my bolt would ping 3rd and 4th under hard accel I knew it needed a tune so I bought a cable. Id already been using tunercat for years for lt1 and ls and I knew and had the software for tunerpro (started as an lt1 thing) called tunepro and found out the guys a lightning owner and it was already running. I fixed the bike with more fuel on the decel and extra fuel in the rear. I had to learn to data log but its much easier now u don't need a cable anymore you can Bluetooth log with ecmdroid. I also added a modified RSS and cycle my fan sooner, longer. I never took away any ign advance. Lots of logging but that's my favorite part

Case in point! trial and error, back to stock map, more datalogging, fiddle here, adjust there.. it's all good and fun for many, and yes a great learning experience.. but.. if you just want to just hit the "easy" button and ride, well.. lets just say there's options I have mapped out for ya'

2hy.. you've got skillz brotha'!

Kcander.. you could always hit me back one here, lol!

[2hy2ride]

The only reason I suggest ecmspy is later when I bought my 06' lightning I went ahead got ecmspy with cable and like forty distinct maps for the same price as just the cable I purchased for the bolt. That included all the up to date ebr maps for different exhausts and such, easily uploadable. Ecmspy gets updated its sorta user friendly and there's lotsa instructions with well documented methodologys

[2hy2ride]

And yeah I'd b the last person to tell u tunings a cinch. Buells with one exhaust sensor can have their own special lil quarks. A lot easier than my e85 ls3 96' firechikn-vette-am tho. My point is that for a measly $40 you get in-depth diognostic tools and all the maps available( which do upload quick and easy). I'm not against the ebr ecm. Its a faster processing (learning) computer. It makes faster more accurate corrections too

[thumpin1203]

Its a faster processing (learning) computer. It makes faster more accurate corrections too

2hy, I do believe that is an accurate statement.. as that is what was conveyed to me by the guru(s) at EBR.. enhanced firmware, etc.. as much as we all like to get a "deal" in this day and age, a fella' gets what he pays for with the EBR unit, (and of course Max's end result with his upper tier tuning program, sans cutting edge componentry)

[kcander]

Thanks for the info guys. Looks like I've got some decisions to make. Or maybe I just need to buy all of this stuff!

[user_deleted]

my Uly is an 07 so my DFI system is precursor to yours, can be tuned with ecmspy and performance maps readily available. for what it's worth kcander, mine as stock did not run very well and i bought it slightly used with 2500 miles on it, now have close to 5000. i changed the plugs to NGK iridium tipped DCPR8EIX which made a difference, sent my stock muff to randy hawkins for his conversion which made yet another difference and sounds wonderful...priced right. and finally downloaded 07 race maps into my stock ECM which really brought it to life. i had relentless surging and light pinging at times, the ECM tune made all the difference. personally i'd go with max or one of the other tuners on here, a Hawk muff, and the NGK's. the difference will be amazing and has been done by tons of board members. hope that helps.

[EricZ]

Before you try to adjust the mapping in the ECM to correct a runability issue, I would check static timing, perform a TPS reset, clean the throttle body and air filter, and verify good intake seals and exhaust seals. Even if your bike has an aftermarket exhaust and/or air cleaner, the stock mapping should not cause any pinging, even where you live. I have worked on many XBs where the rider thought the bike "needed to be tuned" and it was really something out of adjustment or faulty component.

[2hy2ride]

Eric Im n total agreement. Maintenence and diagnostics before any tuning. Intake gaskets r notoriously a pain on these bikes. Its never a bad idea to have the injectors cleaned and flowed. I have a place a few miles away that does it for $40 a piece.

[thumpin1203]

Before you try to adjust the mapping in the ECM to correct a runability issue, I would check static timing, perform a TPS reset, clean the throttle body and air filter, and verify good intake seals and exhaust seals. Even if your bike has an aftermarket exhaust and/or air cleaner, the stock mapping should not cause any pinging

Eric has a very good point ^^here^^.. have you performed a tps reset yet? it is easy on your DDF3 08'... some guys do it every few tanks of gas.. timing is controlled/set through your ECM (manually adjustable on pre 08's), and of course, it is paramount to establish there are no peripheral contributing factors to your detonation problems, i.e intake and exhaust integrity. Have you tried different brands and/or grades of fuel in your area? I read somewhere that premium fuel, by virtue has a higher "octane" rating, but more additives to obtain such, that actually decrease "volatility" per fluid unit over regular and mid grade(big subject for debate here). I have always run mid-grade and have never experienced detonation under any condition, nor surging, hiccups or decel-pop(post ECM learn) in my mildly modded Buells. Efficiently evacuating heat from our constricted(stock config)engines through free-er flowing tuned exhaust is a GOOD and beneficial thing, it also opens up tuning/fueling potential, that is why I mentioned that an exhaust should be a first purchase, followed closely by tuning. I personally never deviate from, or alter my factory intake/induction system.. as I believe the factory got it right(04'-10) with volume, filtering media, sound absorption and inherent restriction.. yup. that's right.. I'm not chasing horsepower though, these bikes in a high state of tune have plenty for me :D

[kcander]

I quickly attempted a TPS reset a few months back, but I guess I was reading some bad instructions because I got confused and couldn't figure out if I did it correctly. I'll have to revisit that now that I've got, ohhhhh, 8 months until next summer to get that done.

Air filter is clean and I just did some throttle maintenance because mine was sticking a little, so those should be legit, but I'll have to look up the static timing and seals, never done that.

I bought the bike with 27k on it a couple seasons back, it's got 37k on it now. Pretty sure the PO replaced the plugs w/ iridium and ran new plug wires as well not too long before I bought it.

Good thing winter is long around here, sounds like I've got a lot of stuff to look into!