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wally
08-24-2013, 12:41 PM
Got the header off after Thursday's excursion.

O2 sensor cracked completely off!
http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh219/freshdes/Bikes/db89b140de43f0712ece8e47a3aadae1_zpsf0d7cf95.jpg
http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh219/freshdes/Bikes/d0eabe898623d7c6c2a41f60aeb15bd4_zps7fa88be9.jpg
http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh219/freshdes/Bikes/75135f0ecd080f3c9c3a433a3ee7203a_zps05384392.jpg
http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh219/freshdes/Bikes/0d2a70b08dacb86dd48d057da98faa49_zps4cd30c22.jpg

Reckon this is fixable or do I have to start looking for replacement headers?

Sirius815
08-24-2013, 12:56 PM
http://www.deanadamsdesigns.com ;)

Or a set of stock ones. I wouldn't try and fix those...

wally
08-24-2013, 01:00 PM
Now the second part of the dilemma...getting it cheaply in South Africa (where our exchange rate is 10:1 for Rand:US$) :(

Zeroflat24
08-24-2013, 06:11 PM
Damn thats pretty bad. If you cant afford a new one, that could probably be welded. I would just be sure its done by someone that knows what they are doing due to the crack being so close to where it bolts to the head.

Restlessrustler
08-25-2013, 02:19 AM
it can def be welded, but find a good welder....

d_adams
08-25-2013, 02:34 AM
Needs to be cleaned well and then make sure the inside gets purged when it's tig welded back together. It's fixable. Switching to XB12 headers should get a small boost in performance, so if you don't have a good welder available, go that route.

wally
08-25-2013, 10:04 AM
Thanx guys! Would looooove one of your headers Dean, but it would be more than a year of saving...

Our exchange rate kills us!

wally
08-26-2013, 07:30 PM
Took it in to the guy (http://scorchdesign.co.za/) that did the Yahweh bike exhaust.

He reckons an easy fix and shouldn't cost more than R150 (US$15) to fix.
Apparently quite a regular sight on the KTMs and I shouldn't feel left out.
He has fixed heaps of similar happenings.

Feel bit more relieved! ;)

Internet Annoyance
08-26-2013, 09:11 PM
its weldable but the metal gave up there due to heat, vibration and decay. especially as it was cracked already.. it didnt happen instantly. that damage quickly escalated when it first cracked then the air leak it created acted as a welding cutting torch to further destroy the metal.

Its heavily carbonized and will fail again if you dont significantly re-inforce the surrounding metal. Just like on many british bikes or older Harleys,, fenders fatigue and crack from the vibration, you can weld them up and they crack again next to the welds partly from the heat affected zones of the welds as well as being fatigued to begin with.

Ever take an old piece of thin metal, bend it back and forth over and over? eventually it work hardens and breaks or cracks. same principle on the old fenders,, but the exhaust pipes are even more brittle basically being next to a torch flame for many miles,

All part of the design, You might note that very few production cars use thin wall exhaust manifolds or headers, most use a thick wall cast iron, the reason is for every moment of operation its degrading, and wearing away. In the service life of a car, thats factored in and often exceeds the life of the car. Thin wall header pipes never live long and prosper UNLESS you have them ceramic coated,,, it acts as a barrier and shield therefore extending the life quite a bit. You will notice yours cracked and broke on the rear cyl where the temps are highest. and the least amount of cooling.

this is a concept the header wrap guys just simply dont comprehend or acknowledge,

wally
08-27-2013, 04:42 AM
Understood, but it is my only option for now.

I am getting it ceramic coated as well.

It will buy me some time to save up and be able to continue riding.

Internet Annoyance
08-27-2013, 05:57 AM
Okay, good deal, Hope it goes well, if beefed up and ceramic coated and you keep your hardware in good shape you might be able to nurse it along for a long time.

I feel your pain in your location, I used to have a American Muscle car (1963 Nova SS with a 327 V8) while living in Turkey and Germany. It was a serious PIA getting parts and anticipating my maintenance needs as well as a tight budget. I could order from the US but typically it was 4-6 weeks to arrive. On time an order was held up for a simple chevy fuel pump when the order guy wanted clarification on the fittings.... my answer was "I dont give a ****, just send a V8 fuel pump" sheesh,, if it had an extra port for a return id just block it off,,, sheesh, it held up the order and parts for a really long time. This was back before the internet was what it was.

wally
08-27-2013, 07:07 AM
Would you suggest internal and external coating?

A simple thing like plug wires took 3 weeks to get here from the States.
I have made peace with the fact that it is an "exotic" over here and parts will be an issue, though the HD dealership is under contract to supply serviceable parts till 2019.

I just didn't expect some thing so big to go wrong so quickly! :p

Also got my over my fear of doing a header removal for ceramic coating. :D

Internet Annoyance
08-27-2013, 05:07 PM
oh 100% YES coat the inside and outside, the outside helps and protects the metal, not to mention looks really nice, but the inside is the most important. The inside coating provides a barrier from the flames and heat of the exhaust from going INTO the metal,, it cant help but get hot to some degree but a HUGE difference..

the exhaust heat and residue just slides right out of there without impacting the exhaust pipe metal much at all,

which is what you want.

just as an FYI,, I also restore vintage bikes, and when i rebuild or restore a bike, I keep old exhausts hanging up in my storage area,, we break in the bike and do all the tuning and adjustments on the bike with the crappy old exhaust, Then after 250-500 miles, I install the new pipes,, new chrome. (Triumph, BSA, Nortons)

But what We do is we take the new pipes down and have them ceramic coated just on the ID of the pipes, As a result the pipe temps stay low, and more importantly the Pipes DO NOT turn blue.

I get comments at bike shows and events. "Nice bike, shame he doesnt ride it" My buddy rode his 1940 Triumph Speed twin into the All British field meet, competed against Jags, MGs, Austin Healeys, several thousand cars and 48 bikes that year He TOOK best of show,. He rode it in to the event and rode it out of the event. Some of the Jags were pushed by hand into the judging area. I liked watching the looks on peoples faces...

So that should give you an idea of how much heat it cuts down by ceramic coating,, All Buels would benefit from it, The pipe wrap guys dont see why it just kills their exhaust to INSULATE the heat into the metal.

Ever see those cheap ass BBQ grills that are propane or gas fueled? Notice the burner elements and how they turn to powder after one season.?? Thats the best comparison i can think of.

I hope you can get yours repaired.

wally
08-27-2013, 05:54 PM
Cool!

Thanx for the advice and please post some of the other bikes!

I am sure the fix will work - if at least for another 4 years, then I will be happy!

Internet Annoyance
08-27-2013, 06:19 PM
No problem. You can see some bikes on our website for the local museum i volunteer at and I put on events there, as well as educational seminars and classes.

www.nwcarandcycle.com The friend i mentioned Tom Ruttan, with the 1940 speedtwin is the museum board president. He has a nice collection of bikes himself

Ill be posting soon another discussion thread involving Nortons which have a LOT in common with Buells and Harley not to mention Harley came very close on 3 occasions of purchasing Norton. (1970s, 1980s and 2006)
Nortons were the first to commercially Rubber mount their powertrains and HD asked to copy it, when that didnt work EB designed their own system starting on the FXR. I have some of the prototype modern Nortons as well as all the CAD drawings, and engineer reports.

Im downsizing much of my own collection as well as selling some of the museum assets very soon.

sparky300
08-30-2013, 12:49 AM
Switching to XB12 headers should get a small boost in performance

A little off topic but...Is that true Dean? I would expect a larger primary to decrease exhaust scavenging and reduce backpressure thereby reducing torque and hp?

wally
09-01-2013, 05:02 PM
Fixed!

Super nice job for about $US15.

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh219/freshdes/Bikes/13ef8f7c268c24d9fbf87f80f0bd4d76_zps8b4c562c.jpg
http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh219/freshdes/Bikes/faa288eca3409365c4a391b2075b4c91_zpse1094d23.jpg

At ceramic coaters at moment and should get it back by Wednesday and installing over weekend.

Internet Annoyance
09-01-2013, 08:02 PM
Looks like a very competent welding job, TIG or MIG? good job, hope this all works out for you

wally
09-01-2013, 08:17 PM
TIG. Yip, he is very good.

Excuse the blurry shots!

Told him not to grind down the welds as they will be hidden and I don't want to add more stress on that part of the header.

I am happy! [up]

Internet Annoyance
09-01-2013, 09:24 PM
the welds look excellent, nope, dontgrind down the wlds, black? silver? nuclear blue ? on the ceramic coatings?
should be happy with the results, post how it turns out, im happy for you

Matteson
09-01-2013, 09:27 PM
Never grind welds!

wally
09-02-2013, 07:06 AM
Well, we are one step up from Henry Ford - any colour as long as it is black or silver...:D

So black it is!

Internet Annoyance
09-02-2013, 06:46 PM
Black or Silver both would look good anyway. You will be amazed how much less heat there is when the coatings are done,.
Locally theres a shop that offers it in Satin finish or gloss, and a number of colors but they dont do as many colors as they used to. this local shop www.finishlinecoatings.com warrantees the coating for life and found that some colors faded or changed over time, I know a lady who had her harley pipes done in purple, but they dont want to do the job a second time because the colors changed. So they keep it simple with i think 6 colors, Ill post soon as i have seveal sets of pipes im taking in for my winter projects.

Locally theres not many chrome shops anymore, and chromers dont like to rechrome used exhaust parts as even cleaned they contaminate their tanks, so its rare to find anyone who will chrome a used exhaust. but i have some old race pipes for classic bikes and very hard to find sets of them so the ceramic coatings are a good option not to mention the performance improvements.

wally
09-04-2013, 08:05 PM
Back from ceramic coaters!
http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh219/freshdes/Bikes/a9585b3c07f969ed9694cfcbe4d8c060_zpsde4994f0.jpg
http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh219/freshdes/Bikes/a7dba84145d084f4eda202b1fd4bb4ec_zpsa7ece1a1.jpg

Looks like a work of art! :D
http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh219/freshdes/Bikes/853232e0fb36dda3c52f1d72f0350a26_zpsc087dc41.jpg

Got new exhaust gaskets and ready to install on Saturday and riding from next week.
Just in time, s weather is steadily improving! [up]

Internet Annoyance
09-04-2013, 08:17 PM
that looks really good!!!!!:D It sounds like it wasnt too painfull at all, looks like satin Black in the pix,
Ive installed a number of ceramic pipes on bikes but not yet on a Buell, you know what might be helpful is after install is take some temp readings, many multi meters have a pyro meter function, and while i understand you are not in the US, theres cheap chinese temp readers (Aim and point) at Harbor freight stores here,,, would be great to get some readings.

perhaps define specific spots and compare with others. the most scientific would be before and afters with the same bike and same equipment but that ship has sailed in your case. I have 2 sets of pipes im doing but the bikes are already apart. just an idea,, perhaps someone else will take it and run with it.

regardless im sure you will notice a huge decrease in radiant heat comng off the pipes. Looking good! ;)

wally
09-04-2013, 08:23 PM
I think the easiest test will be if my inner thigh goes from medium-well to rare! :p

Thanx for the advice! I will post some pics once installed.

wally
09-07-2013, 05:43 PM
Installed!

Way more effort than taking it off! Def no award for best thought out design!
But I have done and hopefully don't need to do it soon.

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh219/freshdes/Bikes/54c3d79cf33888965161a58e15f3f70a_zps7146d03d.jpg
http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh219/freshdes/Bikes/85b35175a5e3ff3adc02b8cccc34389d_zpsa8af4dcb.jpg
http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh219/freshdes/Bikes/9d492bd72cafd2bcb5a41880cb9168ff_zps6f2fee9c.jpg
http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh219/freshdes/Bikes/ffcae481035a06dfe2bde861c8f6029a_zps07980b5b.jpg
http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh219/freshdes/Bikes/ec0c34a61f6dcaecf9b80643f60b54f5_zps53b7574d.jpg

Internet Annoyance
09-08-2013, 01:18 AM
Looks good, im sure you are happy to have it back together. nice job. So post soon a ride report and heat issues and how well its working.

wally
09-08-2013, 11:50 AM
Rode bike to church this morning and a few kms down road it started misfiring and then halfway there check engine light.

After church I dropped suspension and fan to check O2 sensor and it was so lose, I undid it with my hand!

Some more loctite, elbow grease and back in place! [up]

Internet Annoyance
09-08-2013, 07:20 PM
okay, typical project where it needs fiddling. However loctitie wont work in this case. Even the highest grade of loctite (red) will stop working at 200deg F, and in fact, if a fastener is stuck and wont come loose, thats the best remedy is heat it up to over 200Deg F to break the bonds of the loctite. So for exhaust apps, loctite isnt a valid player.

It IS typical to see a part loosen after heat cycles, my suggestion is frequent tightening and perhaps consider Stainless steel safety wire. There are many websites detailing how to use safety wire and is standard procedure in aviation applications. You dont HAVE to have the nifty safety wire pliers to use it but it sure helps.

the loosening is common in exhaust apps, let me describe what i found REALLy works well for performance headers on hotrods. I cannot claim credit as i developed it after reading several tips in car magazines in the 1980s (Car craft)

so Header gaskets on cars fail all the time, So they use a fiber material and its almost like fibers and clay so the procedure is soak them in water remove or loosen the headers clean the surfaces, while still wet insert the gasket and install the bolts, and tighten up very snug, not too tight and be careful not to strip or snap off a bolt, if in doubt run a bottoming tap in any holes, after assy start the vehicle and warm it up, check for leaks and snug up bolts are required. shut down let cool, repeat several times. each time tightening the bolts. after repeated heat cycles the gaskets should have "Cured" in place and the moving around is done. snug down once more SECURELY, not excessively tight, but SECURE. then use .032" thou Stainless aviation grade safety wire and safety wire the bolts in a TIGHTENING pattern.

End of problems with header gaskets, so the same thing applies to your O2 sensor, Im not an expert at computers and sensors for this ECU and EFI stuff, but im confident that header leaks will damage a O2 sensor so be careful.

wally
09-09-2013, 07:02 AM
However loctitie wont work in this case.

That's quite interesting! Thanx, I would have never known!
I will read up on the safety wire. Riding it to work on Wednesday, so that will give it a good shake down in traffic!

Internet Annoyance
09-09-2013, 07:48 AM
You can read up and i think even download the Loctite application and users guide from the loctite corporation website. everything you ever needed to know about their many products. I use a range of their products.

I used to have the loctite users manual at a job I used to work at. We manufactured a specialized type of machinery and parts kept coming loose on the customers while operating them.

I tried explaining why, no one believed me at first. its one thing if Doug sez so, its another when i can pull out the factory manual and show them, the problem we had was some of the assy guys failed to clean the bolts and hardware properly before install. Loctite wont work when the bolts or parts are oily. you have to have clean bonding surfaces. I showed them how to clean properly and next thing you know stuff stopped failing off.

But then we got calls that when working on the machine, some parts wouldnt come apart, Because we used RED loctite, so the fix was to use a small torch and heat the bolts up to 200 deg F and the loctite would release.

Loctite makes a lot of really good products, but read up on their proper usages and applications. I dont just endorse their products. Im a customer as well;)

wally
09-10-2013, 07:48 AM
All is good in the world of Buell!

No misfiring, no loose sensor, no 6th gear... ;)

Ran perfectly and as an added bonus the promise of a new day full of blessings!
http://www.buellxb.com/buell_images/9521_20130910014407_L.jpg
http://www.buellxb.com/buell_images/9521_20130910014443_L.jpg

A perfect, fully arched rainbow! :)