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View Full Version : xb12xt D&D exhaust = lost horsepower?



08ulysessxb12xt
01-31-2014, 02:10 AM
Looking at the exhaust shootout dyno charts, the D&D makes a +2.5 ft lbs of torque gain, but a loss of 6 hp. :( Not too happy to see after I ordered it earlier this week. Claims are that it is extremely hard to tune the bike with this pipe.
They even tuned the bike and only got 2 hp back so a loss of 4hp. Thats not good news:(

So with my stock ecm, can a place with a dyno tune my bike or do I have to get a race ecm? Please let me know as I will want to get it tuned asap. Shootout says bike doesn't adapt very well on its own.

07Bolt
01-31-2014, 02:22 AM
d+d is rated among the loudest in decibels though. A race can needs a race ecm and hi-flo. Or just the race can alone. Doing everything else then ur lookin at cams and push-rods and pistons to

08ulysessxb12xt
01-31-2014, 02:26 AM
Ok so if I buy a ebr race ecm...... Can i take it out of the box and bike will run, or do i have to have harley program it first then take it to a dyno guy, or can the dyno guy take it fresh from the box and set it all up?

08ulysessxb12xt
01-31-2014, 02:42 AM
now i'm really confused after reading about a full race ecm and a ebr ecm. which do i get and so if I'm reading right I can get a full race ecm and just do the turn key tps reset and let it idle for 10 mins? if so can i get a link to which i need to buy?

anrkizm95
01-31-2014, 03:08 AM
a 12 with a d&d properly tuned will put you at about 95 hp
the asb charts are off by 5-10%.the d&d is pretty hard to tune i recommend the k&n but not the open airbox mod.when tunning mine the airbox mod lost almost 3 hp compared to just the k&n.
all these pipes are going to be in the low to mid 90s hp

BuellyBagger
01-31-2014, 12:11 PM
now i'm really confused after reading about a full race ecm and a ebr ecm

For simplicity, buy the EBR ecm pre-tuned for an '08 1203cc with D&D and K&N, then all you have to do is your TPS reset procedure and your ready to ride. The full race EBR ECM is fully programable which means it'd need tuning, so another trip to the the dyno/tuning shop.

Pre-Programmed, just enter year and exhaust in the drop down menus (http://www.erikbuellracing.com/store/parts-accessories/fuel-injection/xb12-preprogrammed-ecm.html)

chevy42083
01-31-2014, 12:29 PM
Wow... for some reason I thought the EBR ecms were much more expensive.
I think that just jumped up my wish list.
My bike runs fine, but pretty sure the modded muffler and K&N are losing me low down power.

djs2k2
01-31-2014, 01:12 PM
I put a D&D exhaust on my bike with a, K&N, and a Dobek TFI and it was seat of the pants amazing. Since then I have also put a EBR ECM on it with the Dobek TFI and trust me I wouldnt have it any other way![up]

byrdock
01-31-2014, 01:21 PM
I put the D&D exhaust on my 2010 XT and then installed the EBR ecm. Trust me, that's the way you want to go!

buellxb9rs
01-31-2014, 01:55 PM
The d&d is nota top end exhaust and is not marketed that way. If you look is had more power available at lower rpms than the other ones and is not that difficult to tune of you know what you're doing

djs2k2
01-31-2014, 02:36 PM
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The second video is before the EBR

Rkuly
01-31-2014, 03:15 PM
Have a 2009 xt with K&N, stock exhaust. What if anything would I gain by changing to EBR ecm ? My only complaints with stock, it that it seems to be on the lean side. Not sure if this is due to the K & N, since it was installed when I bought the bike used.

BuellyBagger
01-31-2014, 05:12 PM
Have a 2009 xt with K&N, stock exhaust. What if anything would I gain by changing to EBR ecm ? My only complaints with stock, it that it seems to be on the lean side. Not sure if this is due to the K & N, since it was installed when I bought the bike used.

The main thing you would gain from the EBR ECM in your case would be the newer cooling fan programming if the 09's didnt already have that[confused] not sure. But i also think a HD might be able to flash that to the bikes that didnt come with it.
$300 is alot of money to spend on a bike that runs fine. The main reason i purchased my EBR ECM was my stock ECM failed, and since they're basically the same $ as stock i figure what the hell, throw on a K&N with my D&D (which i already had) and maybe ill gain something out of my $300+

djs2k2
01-31-2014, 05:39 PM
Im sorry the first video is before ebr I didnt post in that order?

d_adams
01-31-2014, 06:04 PM
Better?

djs2k2
01-31-2014, 06:08 PM
If the question was directed to me dean yes EBR ECM made the bike even better, but I took the TFI off the bike after I got the EBR ecm and I could tell their was a huge loss, so I put it back on. When I crack the throttle on my baby she cracks fear into the asphalt! :p

Rkuly
01-31-2014, 07:33 PM
The main thing you would gain from the EBR ECM in your case would be the newer cooling fan programming if the 09's didnt already have that not sure

I added the comfort kit, but didn't re-flash. Still on the fence with that. My fan never runs very long after shut down, so really not a problem. Now if the flash provide better cooling I would have it done, but I was under the impression that new logic was done because folks were complaining about the noise. I guess I need to look into that a bit more.
Thks for the reply
Steve

08ulysessxb12xt
01-31-2014, 10:51 PM
That's the ecm I was going to order tonight. So if its preloaded by ebr, what all will i gain by having it dyno tuned? Thats why i was confused cuz i know about the ebr preloaded one, so the preloaded ecm can be tuned by a dyno or does it have to be the full race ecm?

d_adams
01-31-2014, 11:04 PM
If you're going to get it dyno tuned, just use the stock ecm. If you want to save time and not mess with it at all, get the EBR unit.

08ulysessxb12xt
02-01-2014, 02:02 AM
What will I prosper for most? Roughly how much more power do you think I will get from a dyno tune vs a pre-programmed ecm?

d_adams
02-01-2014, 02:20 AM
In theory, if done by a competent tuner, it should be roughly the same, probably a little more. The EBR unit is tuned for their test bike at their facility, if you have it tuned where you live, you may get a little more power. Doesn't always work out that way though. You really need a baseline to know where you started at, compared to where you end up. If you just throw the pipe on there and start tuning away, you'll never really know how much you gained or lost.

08ulysessxb12xt
02-03-2014, 03:19 AM
Yea I just order the pre-programmed unit I talked to a guy there and he said i should gain about 2hp back. I'm just a bit disapointed to see the jardine alot cheaper and only 1db quieter gain 5 hp over stock and 200 bucks more seeing mine 12hp less than a jardine. 96 hp stock d&d leaving me at 90hp and a jardine putting a 96hp stocker at about 102hp.

I'm just looking for good riding gear now. I ordered some metal mulisha riding pants and jersey stuff off ebay, but saw it talked about padding and there's no padding just their rubber logo by the knee area, actually above the knees leaving me unprotected. So looking for riding pants to match the jacket I already have thats padded. Can't seem to find any though or do a proper search :( lol
thanks guys.

steve92106
02-17-2014, 09:20 PM
I think my '09 XT with stock ECM and exhaust is supposed to crank out 103 bHP. Sounds to me as if all the add ons buy you is more noise. And I may be missing something obvious but what's with the complaints about the interactive exhaust? That little trick means the engine will have the backpressure to pull max torque in the low to mid rpm band and still open up for high rpm output when you need it.

EricZ
02-17-2014, 09:26 PM
The 103 hp is not measured at the wheel. Stock XB12 models will only see ~85hp at the rear wheel, ~90hp if the dyno is very optimistic.

Tray3
07-30-2014, 04:50 AM
Sorry did not mean to high jack thread. Please excuse me