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Todd
04-15-2014, 09:26 PM
In the ECMSPY User and Tuning guides, the author writes, as a prerequisite to tuning the closed loop area, "Note the AFV and multiply both front and rear maps by it’s value"

To do that for say, an AFV of 110, do you edit each cell in the fuel map individually, or is there a way to increase the whole map at once by 10%?

Thanks.

Theycallmecrash
04-15-2014, 11:36 PM
Let us in on exactly what it is youre trying to accomplish and maybe we can give you better advice. Because multiplying the whole map by 10% regardless of method is a bad idea.

ich
04-16-2014, 05:53 AM
To do that for say, an AFV of 110, do you edit each cell in the fuel map individually, or is there a way to increase the whole map at once by 10%?
Mit Tunerpro sollte das gehen. Ich habe es nie gemacht, weil mir der AFV egal ist. Hauptsache, EGO Corr ist in allen Zellen im CL gleich.


Because multiplying the whole map by 10% regardless of method is a bad idea.
Die Idee ist, die Map auf den gleichen Stand zu bringen, wie der AFV es macht. Das umfasst auch den CL, weil der AFV ein Resultat der EGO Corr ist.

Todd
04-16-2014, 09:48 PM
With a Drummer SS muffler, K&N filter and airbox delete, my '04 XB12S is running lean as is evidenced by the 117% AFV corrrection, and by a surging idle speed. My AFV was 111% with no idle issues until I removed the airbox cover.
The EGO is correcting the lean condition by applying a 117% correction both in the closed and open loop areas, or in other words, map-wide. As is stated in several places through out the user and tuning guides, (look for "prerequisites" in the tables of contents), before any tuning can be done, you should correct the fueling so that the EGO doesn't have to make any correction to the AFR. It's called stabilizing the AFV.
So, if the AFV correction is 117% for example, you multiply the map values by 117%, which increases the fueling in each map cell by 17%, and then set the AFV back to 100.
Then, ideally (but it seldom works out perfectly), when you go for your next ride, the EGO can chill and stay near 100 (or 1, or stoicheometric) because the 17% increase in fueling you made has compensated for the added air flow through the engine.

AT least, that's how I understand it - I haven't actually tried it yet!

Todd
05-07-2014, 12:26 PM
Just to provide an answer for anyone who might have the same question and happens to stumble upon this thread ...

I "locked" my Front and Rear maps together, then went ahead and multiplied each fuel map cell individually (no "global" choice for DDFI 1 & 2) by 15% to start with, then went for a couple hour ride. When I checked the AFV afterward, I was very pleased to find it at 102%. I left well enough alone and several rides later it hadn't changed.

buellxb9rs
05-07-2014, 01:34 PM
You still need to tune it by dataloging. All you really did was make the closed loop as close to stoich without dataloging and it basically gave a general blanket to the rest of the map which is exactly what the ecm was doing by itself

theMelvster6
05-08-2014, 02:48 AM
The method of mulplying the fuel values by the AFV percentage difference is just trying to get you in a safe limit to do data logging without being way too lean to start off with. Because while Datalogging you lock the afv to 100% so It won't change your tuning data. And with a factory narrow band o2 sensor you can only effectively tune the closed loop. The AFV is calculated off of the closed loop operation and it assumes the rest of the map is lean and adds fuel accross the board. Although you might be within a safe limit by multiplying the entire map by the percentage difference, you may have made some places in the map way rich or the transitions on the fuel delivery aren't very smooth. It's important to first get with in a safe AFV and then tune via data logging. To effectively tune the open loop, you would need a wideband 02 setup.

ich
05-08-2014, 03:32 AM
The method of mulplying the fuel values by the AFV percentage difference is just trying to get you in a safe limit to do data logging without being way too lean to start off with
was für ein blödsinn. was ist wenn der afv kleiner 100 ist? ist dann das gemisch auch zu mager?


Because while Datalogging you lock the afv to 100% so It won't change your tuning data.
noch so ein schwachsinn. warum sollte man das machen? damit man keine information mehr bekommt, ob sich der afv ändert?

theMelvster6
05-08-2014, 04:11 AM
Lol....ich! AFV under 100 is calculating for it already being rich...not as big of an issue. Set Min and Max to 100 only for tuning as to not to chase Afv constantly changing and affecting desired AFRs in open loop. You tune it, get the Afv limits back to normal and afrs dialed in then run it in normal operation. I don't even know why we bother arguing with you...plenty of people have successfully tuned buells using different methods...who the **** cares that it's not your preferred method. or some folks don't even use closed loop and monitor afrs independently...You are just a pretentious prick! Always condescending people with your German babbling!

DualSportDad
05-08-2014, 04:38 AM
It's called inferiority disorder.

ich
05-08-2014, 10:08 AM
Set Min and Max to 100 only for tuning as to not to chase Afv constantly changing and affecting desired AFRs in open loop
das ist doch schwachsinn: wenn sich der afv ändert (in closed loop), dann ist es sinnlos den open loop zu tunen, denn der open loop hängt vom afv ab. wenn der closed loop korrekt eingestellt ist, dann ändert sich der afv auch nicht mehr (ausser bei höhenänderungen), also braucht er auch nicht fixiert zu werden.

buellxb9rs
05-08-2014, 10:57 AM
You tune closed loop to 14.7 so the afv won't change the entire map which allows anything outside of closed loop to be tuned however you want it. I swear ich you are so stupud.

ich
05-08-2014, 01:23 PM
You tune closed loop to 14.7 so the afv won't change the entire map which allows anything outside of closed loop to be tuned however you want it.
genau das sage ich doch. warum sollte der afv auf 100% fixiert werden, wenn er sich nicht ändert? Und wenn er sich ändert, welchen sinn macht es, open loop mit einem falschen afv zu tunen?

buellxb9rs
05-08-2014, 01:34 PM
Tuning open loop to 100 will keep the computer from trying to correct the entire map which will allow you to get better power outside of open loop. Once you are done tuning and sent everything back and turn open loop back on, the depending on conditions and if tuned correctly the afv will only change depending on weather etc so it will not try to correct the entire map unless necessary and even then it will most likely only be a very small percentage

theMelvster6
05-08-2014, 01:56 PM
He missed the part where I said to put it back in normal operation when you get the AFRs dialed in. Which include 14.7 in CL. He's a Troll in my opinion...he writes in German now, probably because he knows people will still run it through Google translate so they can argue...his English is fine, he's just being an Asshole.

konarider94
05-08-2014, 01:59 PM
I don't translate his posts. I always assume he has nothing of value to add. Best bet would be to ignore him.

snrusnak
05-08-2014, 02:09 PM
I don't translate his posts. I always assume he has nothing of value to add. Best bet would be to ignore him.

[up]

ich
05-08-2014, 02:30 PM
and turn open loop back on,
open loop kann nicht abgeschaltet werden, also auch nicht angeschaltet.

buellxb9rs
05-08-2014, 02:46 PM
Open loop learn CAN be disabled. Do you even know what you are talking about?

ich
05-08-2014, 03:35 PM
and turn open loop back on,


Open loop learn CAN be disabled

open loop learn ist nicht open loop.

theMelvster6
05-08-2014, 04:12 PM
Doobie Doobie Do...

braimdonor_1
09-16-2014, 08:57 PM
My afv was reading 113 ...so I saved my original maps. And multiplied the blocks in the 2500 to 3500 between 20 and 40 percent throttle opening by 1.13 now my afv value is 95.. accleration is better. So it makes me think that if your judicious in using it the afv is a good thing to look at

Greenman
01-29-2016, 12:51 AM
Sorry if I answer to this topic, but I think it's better than open a new one, and sorry for my poor english, I'm italian. I bought one year ago a map from xopti, then I set up Tunerpro RT using the info on his site and on this guide https://drive.google.com/file/d/0By69gxdMpcWHMTZqYUdkeFRVa0E/view?pli=1 that if I remember well Xopti helped the guy to write it, I seen also a video made by xopti where he did an example of live datalog, unfortunatly this video is no longer visible. I burned the new map, reset the TPS, set AFV to 100%, but I didn't lock the min/max AFV to 100%. I did two datalog (1,5 hour each) and the bike run well.I experienced that when I replay the datalog, the Closed loop region was generally lean and also the region when you close the throttle for deceleration, while some fuel cell (I considered only fuel cells with a sample count over 100) on open loop were rich. But when I finished the ride the afv isn't changed, it's always set to 100%, therefore I thought that tunerpro lock the afv to 100% by default. My question is: why on the xopti site and in the guide above there isn't written to lock afv to 100? I try to search on the web and Xopti didn't mention anywhere to lock AFV, but he said that it's also possible to tune the open loop region with the stock NB sensor. I'm a bit confusing. I hope someone expert can help me.
Thank you!