On going engine issues

[buellfiend]

Hello fellow Buellistas!

I'm turning to you for help because (first) y'all were so helpful in helping me make my mind up to become a Buell rider in the first place (about 2 years ago) and because I'm having problems my HD dealer here in Austin is evidently unable to solve.

The link below describes the problem (click 'more' under the video description for full details) and shows what the bike is doing.

This is my bike currently at its 'best'. Tomorrow AM (mornings are the worst for my baby, much like me) I'm going to record a second video which really shows how hard she is struggling when I start her up.

Any comments would be most helpful. My local HD is kind and courteous, but far from effective diagnosing and fixing the problem. Its been about 4 months now, and I think its time to turn to someone that really knows a Buell --> you.

My next step is to head down to south Austin to another dealer known to be Buell friendly and knowledgeable, but I thought I'd be fair and give these guys one last shot... Any insights you might have could help them fix my ride.


Thanks folks!

Youtube Link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TB4gasNGCt4)

[steve may]

Buellfiend, you should check out the post Decipher Check Engine light codes w/o ECMSpy by Stevenc150

[xtremelow]

Have you done any upgrades or service to the engine directly prior to the problem?

Or possibly any disconnected wires during a tear down of any kind?

Has the HD shop told you anything or are they just lost?

[buellfiend]

Thank you! Did a site search, did not find that topic. Do you perhaps have a direct link?

[buellfiend]

Xtremelow- The only mod I've ever done (and have since undone to see if it would help) was to disconnect the servo to the muffler valve so that I could get louder pipes (and a little more top end). I reconnected, found the same issue.

Dealer tells me that they don't find anything wrong. Makes me think I am taking crazy pills. If you just start it, stand back, she acts like the video. Worse, in the mornings (check back tomorrow am for a youtube repost... will be 10 mins long).

They performed a TPS reset because "we didn't see anything wrong" with the ECM error buffer. Changed spark plugs also, which made the problem go away for 24 hours).

Its always possible they disconnected something. But one would hope the trouble shooting diagram would have checked for that. I've had suggestions from my local Buell group that there might be head temp sensor or O2 sensor problems, but if the wires were loose, I doubt she'd run so well after warm up.

No, they don't have any ideas :(

[xtremelow]

A bad 02 sensor can do some goofy things.

Something simple you should try is, spray off the inlet air temp. sensor inside the intake with some carb cleaner. Sounds dumb but if it is coated with to much oil it may show an inaccurate reading until warmed up for some reason.

I say this because I had a similar problem with my truck and all it was, was the IAT sensir.

[LeFox]

the problem is that your are either getting fuel burst when the engine is cold or/and your ignition is off.

- battery condition while under load
- stator
- ignition coil
- ignition connections & wires

another possibility could be, since it helped for 24hours with new plugs...
that somehow they are getting fouled during coldstart

either fuel pressure is a problem, getting bad vapor in your cylinder, causing a bad burn.
also possible you 02-sensor, like xtremelow said.

anyway, you need someone with ecmspy see what is going on with your af mixture.

so from easy 2 hard
1) battery condition under load
2) check ignition coil for cracks or other
3) check ignition connections & wires
4) check 02 sensor
5) check stator
6) check fuel pressure
7) hook up ecm

[xtremelow]

As LeFox stated check the coil and wires.

Last year I had a bad plug wire and when I would put my bike under load it wouldn't run very good and under heavy load the bike felt as I was slamming on the brakes. New wires and problem gone.

The problem was the wire was grounding out through the frame due to bad insulation on the wire.

LeFox knows pretty much everything about these bikes so follow his lead and you should be set.

[buellfiend]

Hopefully the dealer will listen.

I've got a friend here with ECMspy, but unfortunately, he is unable to connect to the '08 ECM.

[jsg]

buellfiend my 09 was acting similar and for a while my dealer agreed with me that there was something wrong but they couldn't find anything so they started replacing parts, first time they only load a new updated map, the problem seemed to be 1/2 resolve for about a week and then it came back worst, second they replaced the eng temp sensor because they found my eng temp wasn't getting high enough, the bike ran good for 2 rides and on the day I was supposed to store it for winter the bike started but was running at about 500 to 600 rpm and sounded weird, every time I tried to give it gas it would back fire until I touch my front cylinder to realize the bike was running only on one cylinder. So now the third fix they did was replace my ecm under warranty and according to the tech (which the dealer call my personal mechanic)the bike has been running top notch since then, I will find out in 3 weeks when I get back home and take it out.

[buellfiend]

And this morning: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50hMpBRVA3E

[Stevenc150]

Dealer probably already did it, but here's a simple way to check for Engine trouble codes. Check Engine Trouble codes (http://www.buellxb.com/Buell-XB-Forum/Do-It-Yourself-Buell-Mods/Decipher-Check-Engine-light-codes-wo-ECMSpy)

[typeone]

hmm, weird. its almost like the ECM is trimming fuel after startup while temp increases but not enough fuel to keep running. odd. it is normal for the ECM to dump more fuel on startup then trim as the motor gets warm, but yours just drops off completely.

one thing i dont notice in your vids is the fuel pump priming. do you ever hear the fuel pump 'whine'? they're real loud on these bikes so it was odd to me that you dont hear the whine.

unless 08+ dont act like my 05 pump?

[jsg]

Man it really look and sound like the problems I had on my 09 and like I said they finally replaced the ECM, I will see if it changed anything when I get back home but according to the tech that worked on it it's good now. He did let it sit outside in the cold to check if it would do it again and he said it did not.

[racepro716]

Uhhh... I know I'm way late on this but has anyone thought about a vacume leak? Intake gaskets and such?

[LeFox]

Uhhh... I know I'm way late on this but has anyone thought about a vacume leak? Intake gaskets and such?
good point! [up]

but that would also have it's influence when warm too.

[buellfiend]

An intake leak has been mentioned several time in my Buell owners club, and I can see how, after warming and expansion, the leak might stop.

The Dealer has it now, and I'm back on their loaner 1125CR.

[LeFox]

well, atleast you get a loaner [up]

[buellfiend]

That's the great benefit of the VIP Platinum warranty - whenever I take the bike in, I get a loaner. :)

[GatorBuell]

Hell, keep the CR.

You can check intake leaks with a propane torch. Turn the gas on low (without the flam) and move it around the throttle body and other intake areas. You will hear the engine change its tone if you find a leak. FYI.....

[buellfiend]

LOL I sure don't have that kind of equipment, let along the confidence to get that much flame around my girl.

My dealer's service group has this link and the bad web link, so hopefully they are gleaning useful clues/methods from all of your suggestions and are trying some.

:)

[jabooty]

i had pinging, running on one cyl., specially after the bike warmed up or on accel.
dealer could not figure it out so i diagnosed it myself.

THE FRONT INJECTOR WAS CLOGGED! the rear was slightly clogged. i removed the injectors and found debris inside the inlet side just before the screen.
cleaned it out with brake clean and a little of compressed air. everything has been good so far.

[buellfiend]

I've never really had any pinging, but have had it stall on me, cough and choke up, etc.

[slapppy]

I am having this EXACT same problem and I don't know what else I can do. I have already changed the spark plugs, spark plug cables, battery, done a TPS reset with ECMSPY, and changed the ignition coil. Please post what they did to fix your bike. I have read through every forum post on this subject and feel like throwing in the towel. Is there anything else I can try guys?

[Fock347]

i had the same thing happen to me, about 6 or 7 months ago,when i took my bike apart. ok on the throttle body on the right side of it ( if you are sitting on the bike) below the air intake there is a 90 degree fitting (as racepro said) a vaccum fitting i forgot to plug it up when i put my bike back together. if you want a pic of where it is let me know and ill tare my airbox apart.

[buellfiend]

Well, she's in the shop now (about 4 days) so hopefully they've found something on the bike or through your posts (gave them the link).

[slapppy]

The last thing I have tried was a new ignition coil and the tps reset. Today I try starting it and smoke starts coming up from the airbox. I stop and remove the airbox but I don't see anything fried and it looks like it may be coming from the inlet tube from the engine. Anyone have any ideas?

[slapppy]

Just syphoned most of the gas from the fuel tank and the put in some HEET to burn any moisture. I then put in some fresh gas and the problem still exists. Did they fix yours Buellfiend?

[slapppy]

Well, mine is fixed. Looks like I wasn't doing the TPS reset properly. The dealer did a TPS zero and reset and the bike is running perfectly. Does anyone know if there are instruction online on how to zero the TPS? That is probably where my problem was.

[jsg]

Buelfiend, any news on what was wrong?

[buellfiend]

Update:

Still riding the CR.

The dealer has ordered a fuel line, and I have my fingers x'd that they are right, but it just doesn't seem like it will fix the problem.

Still, I'll give it a shot. IF it doesn't work, I'm moving my biz down to the other Austin area dealer - most of the local Hellbuellies swear by this dealer.

[Stevenc150]

Hope that fixes it Fiend. In the meantime, how 'bout a little review of likes/dislikes between you're XB12S and the CR.

[jsg]

If it can help with what I said before I got my bike out since Monday and so far it runs very good with the new ECM, I forgot to mention before that they did chance a fuel line too that was a bit loose and wasn't supposed too so I don't think it was the problem but who knows I'm very happy that the problem seem to be fixed for now.

[buellfiend]

Update: So I got the bike back again, started it before I even went into the shop, and it was running like before, but just a little.

Within 2 hours, it was almost back to the same crap, and within 12, completely crappy.

They changed the fuel lines.

I've given up on this dealer (4-5 tries is enough) and am trying to get in contact with Buell tech support. Anyone know a person in Buell?

[Stevenc150]

Did they ever try swapping out ECMs?

[buellfiend]

Nope, not yet. I think they are looking at the turn signals as the source of the problem (non-factory) ;)

Bike died on me in the middle of rolling onto the road from a stop on a steep embankment; so now in addition to a crappy motor I've got lots of scratches.

[LeFox]

change out the ecm...try with someone else or a showroom model, or whatever a dealer can do.

i know the benelux buell manager, but that will not do you any good...:o

[jsg]

I have an update on the4 ECM replacement on my bike, it is running better but still not 100% like it should so the ECM is not a magic fix, the bike seem to take for ever to warm up I'm talking more then 5 mins+ sitting there before going for the ride and even sometimes it will bug a bit in the first cpl min of the ride. Also when not warmed up completely the rpm will fluctuate alot at idle. Like I said it's not perfect but I can ride and have fun so alot better then last summer :)

[tuneport67ss]

Check the vent tube coming off of the top of the tank. May be vapor locking. Pull it off at the tank and blow air through it to make sure it is not clogged up. It sounds like a fuel issue for sure. One other thing you could do is pull the gas cap off before starting it up to see if that helps. If this doesnt help I would lean towards a fuel pump or something with the injectors. Keep us updated.

[Willie P]

hi - i found the ecm pin box(exs) - they are under the seat on my TT.

from what I can tell there are two sets of ports, each numbered 1-12.

when "jumping" them per the poor man's ecm spy method, do you jump 1 and 2 right next to each other (on the same port) or do you jump 1 and 2 in each seperate port?

thanks

[Train]

Did you post in the wrong thread?

You don't jump any of the actual ECM pins! There is a dangling port with a rubber plug in it. It is probably laying next to your fuses and it has 4 pins total. That is what do the jumping on.