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WileyXB12X
04-27-2015, 10:59 PM
Rode in to work this morning, made a quick stop, then got on and continued down the road. After the stop, ZAGAM (Zombie Apocalypse Get Away Machine), my 06 Uly, started acting like she was pumping mud. She would bog down like I was pulling a half ton trailer. If I let off the throttle, I'd get a backfire and some pops and then it would idle between 900-1000. I got to work and didn't have time to eff with it and just hoped I would make it home. Coming home, same thing. Bogged down when the gas was applied, really low idle. About a mile from home it all stopped and she ran fine all the way in. ???

Anyway, I plugged it in and did a TPS reset. There was no CEL and no codes in the bank. The idle is still really low even after the TPS reset (angle is about 9.1 to keep the RPMs at 1050-1150).

Any ideas? I'm going to ride in tomorrow, but I may be thumbing it home.

Cooter
04-27-2015, 11:47 PM
Fuel pump chaffed wires? Sounds like a lack of fuel.

ztied
04-27-2015, 11:56 PM
Is it a normal place you get gas, maybe bad gas?

WileyXB12X
04-28-2015, 12:00 AM
I feel like it's fuel related too, not sure if it's supply or gas. I'm going with supply, maybe a short or something loose since the problem randomly started and then randomly went away. I filled up a couple days ago and haven't had any problems until today. The only recent change I've done is run an additionally grounding wire from the grounding strap straight to the battery to see if it would solve my hard starting problem (it didn't).

WileyXB12X
04-28-2015, 12:00 PM
Riding in this morning, the same problems surfaced. On the bright side, it idles perfectly at startup so the engine warms up easily without me having to coddle it but I have no power in the first zone, or when I try to accelerate sharply, or going up hills. It seems to be running noticeably louder, but that could just be my head playing tricks on me.

user_deleted
04-28-2015, 12:48 PM
for what it's worth had precisely the very same symptoms and problems 2 weeks ago with one of my personal bikes being a 2009 lightning Ss long with 1900 miles on it. just what you described. dying fuel pump. the excess noise was in actuality the air intake with no exhaust response to soothe the noise.

WileyXB12X
04-28-2015, 01:03 PM
Thanks, any other symptoms? CEL or codes or or erratic behavior?

mriulvr
04-28-2015, 01:34 PM
Had my fuel pump going bad about a year ago. The other symptom that pointed to the fuel pump on mine was when I key the ignition on the fuel pump would start up but instead of stopping one fuel pressure was set the pump would just run "slower", which it had not done before. Replaced the fuel pump and o-rings and has been golden since. The other thing you might want to check is the breather hoses on top of the cylinder. The one on my rear cylinder had somehow popped up, not all the way out, and the bike ran like crap, very much like what you described. I thought it was bad gas, fouled plugs, and a host of other things. When I pulled the airbox cover and noticed it I pushed it back down and haven't had any issues since.

user_deleted
04-28-2015, 01:51 PM
Thanks, any other symptoms? CEL or codes or or erratic behavior?
no cel activated...no stored trouble code. symptoms and behavior as below and keep in mind this is virtually a new 2009 model in my stable:
1-bike sitting unused and unstarted for 3 months....required 3 full start procedures to start and stay running.
2-ran flawlessly for 40 miles
3-stopped for coffee break and chit-chat....restarted flawlessly....idles perfectly...no abnormalities
4-two miles down the road from the break area failed to respond to even slightest throttle input...would fall flat....no CEL activated....wouldn't climb the slightest hill
5-pulled over and stopped....shut off motor...waited 1 minutes...restarted....idled fine...another 2 miles further down the road exact same symptoms re-emerged....limped home. replaced pump and filter and all was fine.

WileyXB12X
04-28-2015, 01:54 PM
Thanks - not looking forward to the petrol bath.

user_deleted
04-28-2015, 02:01 PM
not looking forward to the petrol bath.

then do this: remove air box cover and look at 1 o'clock position on frame/tank. that is vent. delicately pinch shut the rubber vent hose which sources from vent and over top and left side of air box lid. now remove drain plug at pump and start to drain. as drainage slows to a trickle gently relieve your applied pressure to the vent hose till flow increases. use the vent hose as a primitive method to control the fuel flow from the drain plug.

WileyXB12X
04-28-2015, 02:31 PM
Physics, brilliant! Thanks for that

Cooter
04-28-2015, 06:37 PM
You could use a brass MPT(?) to barb fitting that fits into the drain plug hole, put the hose in a gas jug and the only leakage you'll have is swapping the fitting out.

Or easier…
You can form tin foil into a funnel like shape around the swing arm stuff to direct the gas into a drain pan. A clean drain pan will let you re-use the gas[up]

WileyXB12X
04-28-2015, 08:22 PM
The brass fitting might be a go, I tried the foil funnel once and that was an absolute mess. I'm sure I did it wrong.

A few more observations - when the bike is cool, runs great - once hot the RPMs sit at 3000. I can start rolling in 2nd gear with no throttle applied. The power is back, absolutely no problems on the interstate, but once I hit traffic or come into town it's annoying. To keep the RPMs down at stop lights I would hold the front break and let the clutch about half-way out to put a load on the engine and bring the RPMs down to 1000.

Is there a way to tell that it's definitely the pump before I make a mess and drop 350+ bucks on a new pump?

Tbone
04-28-2015, 09:39 PM
Yes, Fuel pressure gauge. I do not own one but know someone who knows something, and owns an FPG. Intermittent electrical problems though can sometimes read good then bad, good then bad......If it is electrical, not mechanical I would investigate if it could be rewired somehow? Make that $350 pump work longer! or at least try is what I would do. I have been called frugal before......

WileyXB12X
04-29-2015, 01:24 PM
Alright, I may see if I have some buddies here who have a gauge I can borrow.

I did some more digging and similar problems in cars and other bikes suggest an intake leak. The thought is that there's a small gap that expands when the metal heats up. So tonight I'm going to get the bike warm and start testing for intake leaks. If that comes back negative, I'll try to get a FPG and learn how to use it (HA!).

All this is new to me, but it should give me a good project to work on.

WileyXB12X
04-29-2015, 10:51 PM
I pulled the airbox off to see if I had left anything loose when I put in the extra grounding wire. The air sensor felt a little loose, like I hadn't plugged it in all the way. Put all back together and warmed it up, took a ride for about 20 minutes and couldn't duplicate the problem the it stills feels a little weak accelerating from a stop in first gear. I tested for an intake leak and didn't get any kind of response.

So either the possible lack of air sensor was messing it up, but only when it warmed up (does that make sense?) or the the pump is still the culprit but the problem is manifesting differently now?

Or it's gremlins.

WileyXB12X
04-29-2015, 11:04 PM
Also, I've looked up some how-tos on using a fuel pressure gauge, but all the videos are on cars. Where would you tap into the Buell to test the fuel pressure?

WileyXB12X
04-29-2015, 11:16 PM
Nevermind, found it in the manual. :p

WileyXB12X
05-02-2015, 12:14 PM
I was hoping the problem was magically cured, but not so. Starts fine (hard, but that's an old problem), pops and backfires at low speed when I first start riding, even if I let it warm up 5-10 minutes. Once the engine gets warmed, the idle jumps to 3000-3300 and hangs out there. Doesn't bog down in first, just goes - it's actually made stop-n-go traffic easier to manage, HA! If I shut it down and restart while the engine is still hot, spikes back up to 3k. If I let the back cool, comes back down to 1k.

Still trying to get my hands on a FPG. Leak test was nil. A friend of mine suggested throttle linkage. I wiggled cables and didn't get any response, then pulled off the airbox cover to see if the intake flap was stuck open and it wasn't. I missed mriulvr's post about the popped breather hose from the top of the cylinder so I'll check that too.

user_deleted
05-02-2015, 02:20 PM
^^^^^ typically they'll dump a stored trouble code into your ecm but what you're now experiencing sure sounds like a faulty tps switch. symptoms you're describing seem different than your original symptoms when first posting.

WileyXB12X
05-02-2015, 02:32 PM
Yeah, the problem has mutated. I also am considering faulty TPS even though it's not throwing a code.

Overall, it just seems to be running rich. The initial problem seemed like too much fuel for the engine to burn causing it to bog down and now it seems to run rich when it gets hot, kicking my RPMs up. Does that make sense or is my reasoning flawed?

Fuel pump isn't "always on," which seems typical of the chaffed wires (that or completely dead), but may still be the pump but I can't explain why it only happens when hot (but I'm a far cry from a mechanic).

Just for giggles I'm going to detach the extra grounding wire I added. It may just be coincidence that the problem started when I add the cable, but at least I'll be able to rule it out.

WileyXB12X
05-03-2015, 07:58 PM
Possibly resolved...

I opened up the top to remove the extra grounding cable I'd attached since it hadn't helped anyway (hard start). While I was in there, I pulled the plugs for inspection and they were clean (a little white, but not glazed or blistered, possibly lean). While I had the plugs out I noticed that the idle adjustment cable was sitting across the top of the header, the sheath had melted off. I ran the spark plug wire under the idle adjustment cable to lift it off the header.

When I put it all back together, the bike immediately started to idle at 2500rpm. Last TPS reset, I remember I really had to crank out the knob to get the idle where I needed it. So I turned it back in, bringing resting idle back down to 1050-1150. I took it for a test ride today for about an hour, idle stayed where it should, power was there when I needed it, all the sputtering and backfiring was gone.

My theory is that the cable was bound a little and when it heated up it warped and turned the idle out then returned to its natural form when cold. But it could be that the extra grounding cable was doing something wonky (technical term) to the ECM.

Or the gremlins moved on to new stomping grounds.