Just Purchased a XB12R

[XL90R]

New to the Forum from Dallas, Tx
Just got a 2009 XB12R
Not new to Harley or to Quad cams by any means, but Finally came across a Buell for the right price and condition, 5k miles 1 owner, perfect condition.
I also have a Very Highly Modified 2002 XL883R taken out to a 90" by Hammer Performance.- Making upwards 130hp. Not sure what lies ahead for the buell. First thing I'm thinking is I need to tune this thing. Got a steal on a Jardine GP pipe, did a breather mod, and installed a K&N. Been doing alot of reading on ECMSPY, but dont really feel up to gambling with 100$ when I can just get a Directlink key for $200 and tune it 100%. Anyways Always open to suggestions!


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[XL90R]

oh and also do most buells have that small hesitation bliping the throttle between 1500-2200 rpms? hell I can get it to pop back through the air box pretty regularly in this range only.

[rchuff]

Have you tried a tps reset ? Don't need a cable or laptop to do it on that year bike. Just use the Google search at top right of page.

[Cooter]

X2 on a TPS re-set. It's easy and free.

I imagine it's running pretty lean now that you have modified the intake and exhaust, but haven't tuned it.

Btw the Direct link key is just a flash tuner for Harley Davidson motorcycles. I don't believe the Buell DDFI-3 system on your bike is compatible.

Guess what ECMSpy does...:up:

[Dellinger]

It's not an I4, it's a 45degree V-twin with flywheels made by Joe Weider. It will never act like a I4 when you blip the throttle. You'll only induse the burping and farting you already described.

[vicenzajay]

As an aside to the technical conversation - beautiful bike. Congratulations!

Oh - and the TPS reset is ridiculously easy on your bike. :-)

[XL90R]

Cool thanks for the tips, I will try the TPS reflash. There is a specific key for buell's that are compatible with direct link. I dyno tune so I shouldn't have any trouble with something I am familiar with like direct link. Also I dont expect it to Act like an I4 but tuned properly it shouldn't pop back, as stated, I'm not new to Harley or Quad cam motors, I can blip my throttle all day on my Xl and it doesn't skip a beat. The issue was present before the changes to air flow, so I will try the TPS reset, Appreciate it!

[XL90R]

TPS reset looks like to have resolved the issue, Appreciate it!

[Dellinger]

Glad it's running better, have fun. These bikes are a blast in the turns.

[XL90R]

Glad it's running better, have fun. These bikes are a blast in the turns.

Hell yea they are! put about 200 miles on it today, Its a fun bike, awesome brakes. Wheelies so effortlessly, Little wobbly, could use a stabilizer. I do wish It had my XL 90 inch in it, this thing with some serious power could be one hell of a machine.

[XL90R]

well I got my first engine code, servo motor is showing to be stuck open, luckily I have a D&D on the way, so will be scraping that **** anyways. aside from that issue, bike is blast to ride! been really enjoying it and its freed up alot of time for me to work on fine tuning my sporty, since I have another bike to daily ride now. last nights dyno pulls produced 125 hp/ 105 ft lbs of tq @ 90 ci. Thinking the buells going to need some love next, it just doesn't have enough power to go along with its awesome handling and braking.

[Gloomshadow]

you think you can get 125 streetable horse out of this thing? whats your plan?

[Dellinger]

You said it felt wobbly. Not sure if you ment after wheelies. You should at least check the steering head bearing for play then retorque the steering head and triples. I had to do this on my bike when I got it, helped. I eventually upgraded to the Allballsracing.com kit. Night and day.

Its a sharp rake for any bike and some people notice it more than others. One of the things that make our bikes so different. I've hit 135 on my 12 and it felt smooth as hell.

[Gloomshadow]

+1 on the Allballs roller kit... its fantastic.

[XL90R]

you think you can get 125 streetable horse out of this thing? whats your plan?

Oh I have no. Doubt I can get 125 out of it.. My 2002 90" Sportster just put down 130 hp/ 100 ft. Lbs on pump gas 93. That route took some serious money and effort, so for the Buell I'm thinking a turbo is going to be the way to go for the XB, with a low compression 1250 by hammer performance and some 570 hammer performance cams.. Fed by forced induction it would probably see 150+ hp.

heres the dyno pull i did yesterday on my Xl, its going way lean on the big end, still have some fine tuning to do, I think after fuel and timing are adjusted I will have it to 140 hp on pump gas.
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[XL90R]

I fell the wobble randomly under heavy acceleration usually after a small powerwheelie, Necks good, bearings are nice a smooth, Just think it needs a stabilizer IMO, I have them on all my bikes, going to fab up some mounts for an ohilins stabilizer I have laying around

[XL90R]

You said it felt wobbly. Not sure if you ment after wheelies. You should at least check the steering head bearing for play then retorque the steering head and triples. I had to do this on my bike when I got it, helped. I eventually upgraded to the Allballsracing.com kit. Night and day.

Its a sharp rake for any bike and some people notice it more than others. One of the things that make our bikes so different. I've hit 135 on my 12 and it felt smooth as hell.

IM about 125-130 lbs, the XB topped 145 on a down hill with me, Do these have VS limiters? I had more RPM to go, but bike shut down.

[XL90R]

you can use the hashtag #bigtwinsmasing on instagram and see and the details on the internals in my 90" build. Some serious Quad cam porn :)
https://www.instagram.com/explore/tags/bigtwinsmashing/?hl=en
or my build forum:
http://xlforum.net/vbportal/forums/showthread.php?t=1976997

[oh9bolt]

:up::up:

[Gloomshadow]

sounds like a plan.. I wouldn't try 125-130 on stock internals, I don't think you can make it and I doubt it would handle it for long if they could.. Eric got almost 200hp out if his turbo buell... this will be fun to watch.

[XL90R]

sounds like a plan.. I wouldn't try 125-130 on stock internals, I don't think you can make it and I doubt it would handle it for long if they could.. Eric got almost 200hp out if his turbo buell... this will be fun to watch.

The crank is solid, but I would want lighter pistons with axtells and some conical valve springs and turn it up to about 8k. How ever a friend on the XL forums was showing me his stock xb with a turbo making 125/100

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[Gloomshadow]

what year xb is that?

[mrlogix]

start here
http://www.buellxb.com/forum/showthread.php?27140-My-Turbo-XB-build

follow the trail young padawan. Sorry couldn't resist. Eric has some good posts. Welcome aboard.

The link to his latest dyno post. DID YOU NOTICE THE TORQUE VALUES!!! That's "64 ft/lbs" more torque than a brand new RX1190. Hope you have a set of gonads and a wallet to match, lol. :up:

[Cooter]

NRHS also makes nice jugs (I love saying that:angel:) that fit Buells. Unless you have already made up your opinion:)
The valve springs in even a stock Buell head are already conical.
You can go for some RPM for hero HP numbers, but that's only because HP numbers are a calculation of Torque and RPM. (TorqueX RPM)/5252.
If you just built the best torque motor you can (insert diminishing gains argument here:black_eyed:), the HP numbers will fall in line.

I'd love to see another turbo build! Do it!

[Gloomshadow]

if you don't want to sink all that money in it, you could just put some of those 12:1 racing pistons over a stock a motor.. one of Buell's little elves once mentioned in a thread somewhere that it was the most cost-effective mod you could do to a Thunderstorm motor... he said it ran fine... I'm still debating myself on using them in my 9 to 12 rebuild of that little 9 lighting I got... I got a crank and everything but I have been wrapped up in a Yamaha resurrection and a Honda restomod, haven't gotten around to the 9 yet..

[Chicknstripn]

Stock 9 Pistons on a 12 crank will bump up compression too. It also makes for a cheap upgrade and an extremely reliable engine.
Here's some good info on the topic of building a better Buell engine.
http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/32777/573543.html

[Gloomshadow]

that's the thread I was thinking about Chicken, thanks... I think I'm going to do this to my build, its a free +7hp at the crank. Some of the guys in that thread are over-thinking it I think. 12:1 isn't actually that much compression, 92 octane should work fine I think. Only problem I have heard of was that one guy told a story of how he loved those 9 pistons and one day he was doing a burnout to impress his buddies, pulled in the clutch by accident and over-revved it into the redline for a sec and bent a valve .. dome got him!

I know a Brazilian mechanic who put 9 pistons in a 12 "by accident" because he didn't know the difference (heh).. he said it ran great on that Brazilian alcohol-gasoline-**** that they sell as gasoline down there. He sent me a message a few years back that basically went "You know, I used some 9 pistons in this 12 and I swear this thing is faster than normal!".. I said "Well you put 9 pistons in it!"...he went "I measured them, they were the same !".... (me) "Its a domed piston, dude!". ...(him) "Oh ****! what's my compression??" ha ha

but +7hp at the crank would take you up to about 110hp at the crank for about 200 dollars total.. that's not all that far off from the 125hp target he's setting for a fkk-ton less money than a turbo build. ..throw in some headwork, maybe mess with combustion chamber and tuning... that would be sweet ride for less money and complication.

Chicken, reason why I mentioned those racing pistons is that I noticed a few months back that those nice racing pistons are on discount with a lot of sellers, price may have been less than even stock new 9 pistons.. I saw some for like 100-120 bucks a set delivered... and those thing look NICE compared to stock 9 ones... super tempting.

90r, you are riding in stock configuration right now, stock map and setup neutered that bike.. I remember how tame my 12 felt back when it was stock... put the race map, filter and muffler on it before you make a snap judgement on it.. once a 12 gets tuned and lightened some , it wakes up quite a bit. Then, decide what you want to do with it.. you may not want to mess with turbo, you got to change a lot of stuff to get that right.

[XL90R]

what year xb is that?
2009


start here
http://www.buellxb.com/forum/showthread.php?27140-My-Turbo-XB-build
follow the trail young padawan. Sorry couldn't resist. Eric has some good posts. Welcome aboard.

The link to his latest dyno post. DID YOU NOTICE THE TORQUE VALUES!!! That's "64 ft/lbs" more torque than a brand new RX1190. Hope you have a set of gonads and a wallet to match, lol. :up:

Oh yes I know most everyone at the XL forums


NRHS also makes nice jugs (I love saying that:angel:) that fit Buells. Unless you have already made up your opinion:)
The valve springs in even a stock Buell head are already conical.
You can go for some RPM for hero HP numbers, but that's only because HP numbers are a calculation of Torque and RPM. (TorqueX RPM)/5252.
If you just built the best torque motor you can (insert diminishing gains argument here:black_eyed:), the HP numbers will fall in line.

I'd love to see another turbo build! Do it!
Dan Norlin from NHRS - ( Norlin Heads Racing Services) Left NHRS with Aarron and created Hammer Performance. They are raising the bar beyond what anyone has done with a naturally aspirated Quad cam on pump gas. see bottom of post for my latest dyno on my Torque monster 90" XL. Also buells use beehive springs, not the same as conical's, they have only been around for the motorcycle application for about 2 years.



if you don't want to sink all that money in it, you could just put some of those 12:1 racing pistons over a stock a motor.. one of Buell's little elves once mentioned in a thread somewhere that it was the most cost-effective mod you could do to a Thunderstorm motor... he said it ran fine... I'm still debating myself on using them in my 9 to 12 rebuild of that little 9 lighting I got... I got a crank and everything but I have been wrapped up in a Yamaha resurrection and a Honda restomod, haven't gotten around to the 9 yet..
I have plenty of way internally to make some serious power with this motor, I think for the power I'm Looking for, pistons alone wont cut it. Hp is one goal yes, but over 100 ft lbs is the other. Which wont be achieved unless either- forced air or bigger displacement.



that's the thread I was thinking about Chicken, thanks... I think I'm going to do this to my build, its a free +7hp at the crank. Some of the guys in that thread are over-thinking it I think. 12:1 isn't actually that much compression, 92 octane should work fine I think. Only problem I have heard of was that one guy told a story of how he loved those 9 pistons and one day he was doing a burnout to impress his buddies, pulled in the clutch by accident and over-revved it into the redline for a sec and bent a valve .. dome got him!

I know a Brazilian mechanic who put 9 pistons in a 12 "by accident" because he didn't know the difference (heh).. he said it ran great on that Brazilian alcohol-gasoline-**** that they sell as gasoline down there. He send me a message a few years back that basically went "You know, I used some 9 pistons in this 12 and I swear this thing is faster than normal!".. I said "Well you put 9 pistons in it!"...he went "I measured them, they were the same !".... (me) "Its a domed piston, dude!". ...(him) "Oh ****! what's my compression??" ha ha

but +7hp at the crank would take you up to about 110hp at the crank for about 200 dollars total.. that's not all that far off from the 125hp target he's setting for a fkk-ton less money than a turbo build. ..throw in some headwork, maybe mess with combustion chamber and tuning... that would be sweet ride for less money and complication.

125 at the crank will translate to about 100-105 hp to the wheel. Looking for quite a larger boost that than. I wouldnt mind have a shorter stroke crank for the high revs though
to compliment a turbo!


Here is my lastest dyno run of my 2002 sportster: Naturally aspirated 90 CI. on pump gas. 133 hp/ 108 ft lbs of TQ
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[XL90R]

that's the thread I was thinking about Chicken, thanks... I think I'm going to do this to my build, its a free +7hp at the crank. Some of the guys in that thread are over-thinking it I think. 12:1 isn't actually that much compression, 92 octane should work fine I think. Only problem I have heard of was that one guy told a story of how he loved those 9 pistons and one day he was doing a burnout to impress his buddies, pulled in the clutch by accident and over-revved it into the redline for a sec and bent a valve .. dome got him!

I know a Brazilian mechanic who put 9 pistons in a 12 "by accident" because he didn't know the difference (heh).. he said it ran great on that Brazilian alcohol-gasoline-**** that they sell as gasoline down there. He sent me a message a few years back that basically went "You know, I used some 9 pistons in this 12 and I swear this thing is faster than normal!".. I said "Well you put 9 pistons in it!"...he went "I measured them, they were the same !".... (me) "Its a domed piston, dude!". ...(him) "Oh ****! what's my compression??" ha ha

but +7hp at the crank would take you up to about 110hp at the crank for about 200 dollars total.. that's not all that far off from the 125hp target he's setting for a fkk-ton less money than a turbo build. ..throw in some headwork, maybe mess with combustion chamber and tuning... that would be sweet ride for less money and complication.

Chicken, reason why I mentioned those racing pistons is that I noticed a few months back that those nice racing pistons are on discount with a lot of sellers, price may have been less than even stock new 9 pistons.. I saw some for like 100-120 bucks a set delivered... and those thing look NICE compared to stock 9 ones... super tempting.

90r, you are riding in stock configuration right now, stock map and setup neutered that bike.. I remember how tame my 12 felt back when it was stock... put the race map, filter and muffler on it before you make a snap judgement on it.. once a 12 gets tuned and lightened some , it wakes up quite a bit. Then, decide what you want to do with it.. you may not want to mess with turbo, you got to change a lot of stuff to get that right.



Yea I realize its still stock and will gain some more power, but I'm also use to riding much more powerful Harleys, I think a nice hammer performance 1250 with some 600 lift cams and head work will set it about right

[Gloomshadow]

so no turbo? ... another consideration and I know you know your **** but you also cant forget that you now weigh up to 200lbs less on a 52in wheelbase... this **** can get squirrely real quick. did you look at the XBrr? It was basically a punched out 984 making a bunch of power, but they never could get it right, they would blow. Think they got new stuff out now that could take care of that??

[XL90R]

Not really sure, I have plenty of time to figure it out, for now Im going to install the D&D and tune the bike and ride it while I finish building the race bike. Still have many more projects to complete on the sportster build, ( install the GSXR front end, stretch the swing arm and all the **** involved with it, Get some lighter wheels, etc etc lol) So it could be some time before I break into the XB's motor. I really want to do a turbo build, and most likely will be the end result for the XB eventually.
Also the buell is only really about 50 lbs lighter than my shaved down sporty, but I do agree on the short wheel base and squirlyness, its squirrely with the power it has, A GPR would go a long ways on this bike

[Gloomshadow]

you can shave the XB waay down If you got the money, carbon jardine may save about 15lbs off stock but I didn't actually weigh it, lithium battery about another 10 over stock.. then all the co-rider stuff and various bull**** can shave off a bout 10.. then carbon, bla bla bla.. you can get it down there if you want to... magnesium wheels, maybe about 10, open primary, maybe 15-20... bunch off stuff can come off like I said, if you got the money... its always that last 20-25 lbs that cost the most as always.. ha

once the suspension is set just right for your weight it feels good, its only squirly if you pour a bunch on when you are leaned over. but it feels good, you get comfortable with it.. what always got me about this bike is the magnified feeling of speed once you pass about 110mph an onward.. feels like its moving a lot faster than it is and it feels like it piles up quick on you.. cheap thrills. that short wheelbase. Its a fun bike, probably my fav of all times... only bike I ever bought two of..

[XL90R]

OH yes, its a blast to ride, I've really been enjoying it and find my self riding it everyday rather than my super bad ass sporty I just built haha, which is probably win win really lol.
I would just like to see it accelerate a bit harder, Maybe even wheelie a bit under power, Its effortless to pull up wheelies on it, Im sure a good pipe and a descent tune will pick up some TQ. Not really worried about weight shaving, especially on this bike. Its set up pretty nice from factory really. The drag bike is gonna be the focus on weight reduction lol. Just need to wake the XB up a bit is all

[Gloomshadow]

race map is all about acceleration .. it wakes it up pretty nice. you could tune off that as a starting point .. you see a difference, its the bike it was meant to be once you got that in there you can tell.. I'm pretty sure the stock pipe and map was in there to meet sound restrictions v-twins have problems passing them so they had to neuter the bike a bit.. numbers don't really change but the rate of acceleration does.. this my 12.. my 9 is a blue SX. this one has changed a bit but its still pretty much looks like this. its a Lightningbolt


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjLIxneYRL8

[XL90R]

race map is all about acceleration .. it wakes it up pretty nice. you could tune off that as a starting point .. you see a difference, its the bike it was meant to be once you got that in there you can tell.. I'm pretty sure the stock pipe and map was in there to meet sound restrictions v-twins have problems passing them so they had to neuter the bike a bit.. numbers don't really change but the rate of acceleration does.. this my 12.. my 9 is a blue SX. this one has changed a bit but its still pretty much looks like this. its a Lightningbolt


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjLIxneYRL8


OK so just a little update, Got the D&D installed, noticeable difference. Got everything set up on ECMSPY mono, and have started the tuning process. Going to spend sunday on the dyno getting it dialed in. Midrange picked up and some top end from the pipe, but I can feel it has some flat spots that for sure need attention, And the decel pop is driving me crazy- which Im tuning out currently without the dyno. Plan is to dial the whole map into 13.2 AFR and my cruise and idle at around 14.2. Depending on if I can shrink the Narrow band closed loop ranges with ecm spy, I may end up perfecting the tune on the dyno and then just turning off closed loop.

[Gloomshadow]

how is it going 90? liking it??

[vicenzajay]

Gloomshadow - could I get some more info about the "gear oil thing" you alluded to earlier? Not something I'm familiar with yet.

[Gloomshadow]

na don't **** with it.. I live in florida and its hot as hell all the time.. I messed around with all different kinds of motor oil and primary oil to see what worked and felt the best for me and my bikes in the climate that I live in. This is what I learned, redline 20w-60HD in the motor felt the best in a hot climate. Best for the primary was Amsoil 20w-50 or Mobile1 V-twin 20w-50 synth ( I assume that redline 20w-50 would also be good) ... those two gave the best feel across the temperature ranges in the south of the usa. The gear oils I tried felt ok too but they eat up copper and will destroy your stator. only one on the list I have yet to try is redline "lightweight shock-proof", some guys would use shock-proof when they raced the XB and said good things about it.

I even tried Harley sae60 as recommended... it took a long time to warm up, felt slushy for about that first 20 min of riding.. shifts felt mushy

[vicenzajay]

Appreciate the reply....good stuff

[DallasXB12R]

OK so just a little update, Got the D&D installed, noticeable difference. Got everything set up on ECMSPY mono, and have started the tuning process. Going to spend sunday on the dyno getting it dialed in. Midrange picked up and some top end from the pipe, but I can feel it has some flat spots that for sure need attention, And the decel pop is driving me crazy- which Im tuning out currently without the dyno. Plan is to dial the whole map into 13.2 AFR and my cruise and idle at around 14.2. Depending on if I can shrink the Narrow band closed loop ranges with ecm spy, I may end up perfecting the tune on the dyno and then just turning off closed loop.

How'd the tuning go? I have a K&N, and Jardine pipe and the decel pop is a little excessive. Tried the race map with ECM Droid but it barely ran so went back to stock for now. I'm in Lewisville btw, you ever ride on the north side of town?

[XL90R]

How'd the tuning go? I have a K&N, and Jardine pipe and the decel pop is a little excessive. Tried the race map with ECM Droid but it barely ran so went back to stock for now. I'm in Lewisville btw, you ever ride on the north side of town?

Nice man your real close, I'm in Allen (collin county). Well the tuning has been delayed due to a small lay down, currently having the plastics custom painted and doing a few other things while its apart. should be back up and rolling in a few weeks and ill get it on the dyno. When its back up and rolling maybe we can meet up and go ride. I can help assist you with the tune as well once I get mine dialed in.

Look me up on FB : mat hormell

or instagram : xl90R

[DallasXB12R]

Nice man your real close, I'm in Allen (collin county). Well the tuning has been delayed due to a small lay down, currently having the plastics custom painted and doing a few other things while its apart. should be back up and rolling in a few weeks and ill get it on the dyno. When its back up and rolling maybe we can meet up and go ride. I can help assist you with the tune as well once I get mine dialed in.

Look me up on FB : mat hormell

or instagram : xl90R

For sure man, get her back together and we'll ride. Nice roads out your way, I just did some riding in Melissa last weekend. Good luck with the repairs.
Sent you an add request on FB, I'm Daniel btw.

[XL90R]

Been busy on the Buell. Installed a GPR stabilizer, RSV levers, ZERO windshield, and got some custom paint by In Depth Customs out of Denton,Tx.

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[vicenzajay]

Yeah...we're going to need a few more pictures.....

:-)

[XL90R]

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[vicenzajay]

very, very nice :-)