EBR master cylinder?

[Cooter]

Upgrading the brakes on the STT to all EBR stuff. Rotor/mounting kit and master.

Both of these are supposed to be OE 1190 masters. Anyone know why the inlet is different? Color is different too, but the bore size is the same.
13778
13779

Maybe an RX/SX thing?

[Barrett]

that's precisely it, shaughn. the m/c on the left in your top pic with black finish is the RX m/c.
the one on the right is the SX m/c.

they're both nissin sourced and pretty sexy.

[Disturbed1]

I have ordered Nissin components for several bikes over the years. Typically they only have three varriant colors. I don't know if it was a production thing, or they gave me a OE bike spec'd one off of a currnet production run, but one time when I ordered Black they sent me one similar to the color of the one on the right.

Anyone know why the inlet is different?

They both look to be Radial Types, just the one having the reservoir coming out the side is a newer version.
(One on Right or lighter color. Which is all they manufacture now in a Radial.)

"The vertically angled body lets the lever flow fluid directly through the master cylinder giving it a sharper response."

At least that is what Nissin says in it's brochure... Follow the link to the two different styles.

For refference.

https://www.shindypro.com/brake_mckits.html

[34nineteen]

I have ordered Nissin components for several bikes over the years. Typically they only have three varriant colors. I don't know if it was a production thing, or they gave me a OE bike spec'd one off of a currnet production run, but one time when I ordered Black they sent me one similar to the color of the one on the right.

Anyone know why the inlet is different?

They both look to be Radial Types, just the one having the reservoir coming out the side is a newer version.
(One on Right or lighter color. Which is all they manufacture now in a Radial.)

"The vertically angled body lets the lever flow fluid directly through the master cylinder giving it a sharper response."

At least that is what Nissin says in it's brochure... Follow the link to the two different styles.

For refference.

https://www.shindypro.com/brake_mckits.html

One is radial, one is axial. I prefer the feel of an axial m/c over a radial one in most cases.

[mike lowary]

I went from the 5/8 axial to the 3/4 radial on the ztl2. Mind blowing

[Cooter]

Thanks so much for the awesome info! Ya they are both 19mm (3/4") Radial M/c's identical except for where the reservoir feeds the masters piston, and the RX/SX difference explains the fluid reservoir bracket confusion I was having (Thank you Barrett).

Hey Disturbed, where ya been man? I doubt I'm fast enough to feel the difference in the side inlet like their brochure says, it is a little more of a PITA to bleed. Everything was dry on install and my levers are pretty far rolled forward though, I normally loosen them and level the master out to bleed them.

BUT, like Mike Looowwraay said, swapping to the radial M/c (even the same size) was a bigger difference that I thought too, hence the change over. I couldn't even get my bike to stop with a ZTL-2 and a 5/8" master:upset:!

34:19, what makes you like the axial system better? It is a cleaner look for sure, but that would be an anomaly

[Cooter]

And why the heck is such a simple part so much dang money if you go shopping at Brembo?!

I would call total BS, but I learned an important lesson about that with the Oberon Slave. Simply a better machined part at the same dimension made the clutch pull HALF of what it was:up:

[Disturbed1]

Hey Disturbed, where ya been man?

Hey Cooter, Just lurking around... Only dispensing info if I have something relevant to say.

I will say this… Your pic’s confused me because I thought the left one was an axial at first. But after looking at the orientation from a handlebar perspective. I knew they were both radials. (Rod / Plunger Parallel to bar = Axial, Rod / Plunger Perpendicular to bar = Radial.) You got to get a better photographer man... maybe that special someone you use at glamor shots…:)


I doubt I'm fast enough to feel the difference in the side inlet like their brochure says, it is a little more of a PITA to bleed
Yeah, I know about the bleeding of the system. I have the old radial version, easy. New radial version, PIA. Truth be told, with a grain of salt, my peeps told me that they changed the design because of a flood of Chinese knock-offs. That, and looking more like Brembo's, not for actual performance.

And for clarification purposes, I am only talking about actual Nissin brake master cylinders. Not an OE bike manufacture that has sourced Nissin to manufacture there braking components to meet their design specifications and fitment.


I normally loosen them and level the master out to bleed them.

I usually bleed somewhat backwards. Have an empty reservoir (1 quart clear jug.) higher than the bikes handlebars coming from it with a hose attached to the Brake Caliper Bleeder. (Clear hose filled completely with brake fluid with no air.) Then crack the brake caliper bleeder and pump the brake lever while adding fluid to the master cylinder reservoir . (Yes some will drip around the bleeder, so get a rag.) Every time the master cylinder lever is pumped it will add fluid to the brake system. And because the brake caliper has a hose with brake fluid attached to, it cannot draw air back into the system when you release the brake master cylinder lever. If you use a clear hose on the brake caliper bleeder, you can watch your entire brake system flush out the old fluid up to the 1 quart jug.

I can bleed the entire brake system in about 5 minutes with fresh fluid, and it works very well with the Buell / EBR mono-block brake caliper.:up:

[Cooter]

Ya know BuellXB sideways pic fun! LOL

Ya, I have spent too much $$ for an "Ohlins" steering damper before that was definitley NOT. Sucks to be suckered:(

Good idea on the bleed, I'll try that:) So funny how the simplest system (car vs bike) can be the toughest to bleed! I'm normally gravity bleed-then-vacuum guy so I'm used to putting teflon tape on the bleeder screw threads, carefully avoiding the hole. I am surprised Erik didn't put another bleed on the inside side of the caliper. Once the dry system is fully bled it's an easy process to even swap fluid once a year, but man, that first time can be a bear!

Thanks for the help:angel:

[Disturbed1]

Once the dry system is fully bled it's an easy process to even swap fluid once a year

You hit that nail right on the head...:up:

Possibly the best thing to do for a Buell or EBR is change the fluid early and often. These single large block brake calipers wreak havoc with the brake fluid. (It is why they put the air scoop on the EBRs.) There is just no place for the heat to go with all of the mass involved. (Between the large thick rotor and single brake caliper.) I have systematically changed and modified different components on the front braking system, but the biggest improvement is to always change the fluid...

Since you brought up Brembo's. Have you ever tried their brake fluid? I can say, even in a non-Brembo system that stuff is good. I was at the track and getting a lot of fade in my zuk, and the guy in the paddock next to me said try the Brembo fluid. I shrugged my shoulders, but he gave me some and it was like night and day. I don't know what those Italians put in that stuff. Maybe it’s the olive oil they put on everything.

Good Luck my friend with your braking needs…:D

[34nineteen]

34:19, what makes you like the axial system better? It is a cleaner look for sure, but that would be an anomaly

I just like the feel of the lever action on an axial setup (usually). I think a lot of the hype to go to radial spurs from the radial mounting of calipers to modern forks. I do think radial is the better way to mount caliper, but I think most people are sold on the "radial is better hype". Granted, I'm not going to switch out a perfectly fine working radial m/c for a axial.

I also prefer m/c's with integrated reservoirs for the aesthetics.

[Cooter]

Makes sense. Anything even slightly off in the brake system would be a bigger feel-difference so it's hard to compare back to back. I would think the difference would be so small a Luddite like me could never tell, but a the radial M/C on the Buell seems tighter, like less lever movement to activation. Maybe it's in my head? Thats why I brought up the Oberon thing. I never would have guessed it would have made any difference, especially a measurable one that big!

I like the integrated reservoir for a street bike too, much cleaner looking.

[rb70383]

integrated reservoir? Havent seen those, but haven't been looking.
Cooter, seems the brake rotor hardware came in? My set is on the way as well.
I have a the ZTL2 setup and the EBR mc to swap onto my 9R. I like the feel of the brakes on the EBR vs the 'Bolt but that is probably apples to lemmings comparo.

On the subject of EBR M/C's and being in the middle of trying to upgrade the rear master cylinder on the XB, what about an EBR rear MC? Cooter found the thread I convinced myself that I read. AZ midget's rear mc upgrade. That thread suggests an 11mm rear MC offers a good ratio.

Cooter, Being a Luddite, why would you want to embrace the technology of better brakes? :black_eyed:

[Cooter]

Integrated, like the stock Buell linear ones. Reservoir and piston are all in one casting.

Thats good to hear about the hardware, There's at least 2 versions of that EBR hardware that I know of and I have 'almost' complete sets of both. GRRRR! I HATE missing hardware...

Not that the ZTL were even that bad but the whole EBR M/C, EBR hardware, ZTL2 upgrade made a huge difference to the STT. One finger lock-up if I was a crazy person. Proper bedding on the EBC HH street pads and I love it!

OK. Maybe Luddite was a little strong, LOL. But it's still decade-old tech:black_eyed:

[34nineteen]

^^^^ this is the guy who still has to look on the floorboard of his car for a high beam switch.
^^^^ this is the guy who pumps the gas on his rental car before starting it
^^^^ this is the guy who has a car that still runs on leaded gas
^^^^ this is the guy who still thinks an auto transmission only needs 3 speeds
^^^^ this is the guy who misses vent windows
^^^^ this is the guy who knows how to avoid vapor lock
^^^^ this is the guy who still wants 10 coats of lacquer on his paint job
^^^^ this is the guy who is upset that Gabriel doesnt make Hi Jacker shocks anymore.

[34nineteen]

Aw man, thats a sweet ride. You should put on a set of traction bars and lake pipes.

[Cooter]

WHAAAA??? GABRIEL DOES NOT MAKE HIJACKER SHOCKS ANYMORE!?!?!?! You lie!!!

Next you'll try to tell me Santa isn't real:upset:

[rb70383]

Whew!!! That wasn't me you were talking about. I had all them boxes checked.

[Cooter]

I used all seven of my fingers, while nodding "mmm, hmmm, yup". So glad he's LYING about #8, Right!!

Right?:confused:

Say it aint so! It's almost time to replace mine
13816

[34nineteen]

All it need is a Keep On Trucking bumper sticker.

https://p2g4z2q6.map2.ssl.hwcdn.net/powernationtv-com/media/uploads/2017/02/gabriel_footer.jpg



https://www.antiquesnavigator.com/archive/2011/01/08/290519632185.jpg

[njloco]

That's why I couldn't put my high beams on, they moved the floor switch, now where the heck did they stick it ?
Isn't ethanol the same as leaded gas ?
Vent windows, yes bring them back !

One of my friends is rebuilding one of those, nice ride !

[outthere]

Integrated radial. https://www.motodracing.com/accossato-19x20-radial-brake-master-cylinder-w-integrated-fluid-reservoir-lever-rst

[34nineteen]

Nice set up. All business.

[Cooter]

Serious cockpit man... Good idea to put the run/stop switch there when you ran out of room:up:

FYI if you want it back on the right side, an OE EBR run/stop is much narrower (no throttle tube space in it) and will plug n' play. Credit Mike Lowrey for that info, I'm 1/2 way done with my swap:)

[outthere]

That toggle switch is now the ign. switch and I've ditched the lever guard. Never used em' in the 80's and don't get close enough to anybody to need it + it's in the way most of the time.

While working on the bike yesterday I made a discovery. When I replaced the top triple tree I neglected to take note of the dimensional differences where the tubes pass through. I've been running chopper style, almost 3/8". Can't wait to get back to the track. I'll bet turn in is much quicker.

[Cooter]

That toggle switch is now the ign. switch
The red run switch can take the current load of the ignition (it already does), so you can wire it in-line and get rid of the toggle entirely if you want a cleaner look? It's super easy and can all be done at the key switch plug (If you think you need another bike project) :angel: Operationally it's just the same. On is ON for the whole bike, and flip it off is OFF and of course, still kill.

and I've ditched the lever guard. Never used em' in the 80's and don't get close enough to anybody to need it + it's in the way most of the time.
But it's Mr. Racey race pants cool! I've watched a new Pani get knocked over when someones sleeve caught that in the Rock Store parking lot.:upset: I'm even OK with wings on big race bikes, but on the street its your address in poser-ville, lol.

While working on the bike yesterday I made a discovery. When I replaced the top triple tree I neglected to take note of the dimensional differences where the tubes pass through. I've been running chopper style, almost 3/8". Can't wait to get back to the track. I'll bet turn in is much quicker.

Wow! Thats a BIG change in rake/trail and possibly bound up forks too:eek: Like maybe 4*!? wow, again. I was gonna ask about that triple because it looks so sexy, but I guess it's destined for the bin:(

We need a Racing your Buell mod thread.

[outthere]

Top clamps staying. I just needed to slide the forks up. There's just 3/8" more exposed at the top.

Help me out a bit with that wiring please. I'm kind of stupid electrically and a drawling would go along ways. If I can make the toggle go away that would be nice. Blue wheel and EBR rotor now installed with new rubber. July's dead for trackdays here. Next event is Sears Point in August.

[outthere]

I got it. Easy peasy. Switch gone. thanks

[outthere]

pics

[outthere]

New front wheel assembly. This makes 3 front's. Running Ferodo pads with this set up.

With some down time ahead of me I think I'm going to send the forks to Race Tech and have gold valves installed on both rebound. & comp. Question is will I notice a difference? The Penske out back was an improvement I could feel. effing 70 yr old's and there toys.

[34nineteen]

I think I'm going to send the forks to Race Tech and have gold valves installed on both rebound. & comp. Question is will I notice a difference?

I wouldnt think the gold valves would have any sort of benefit to the stock Showa setup. As I understand it (and correct me if I'm wrong) , but the gold valves are designed to add adjustability to a non adjustable front end... like damper rods or a non-adjustable cartridge. IMO, the stock front end is a very nice piece for all but a pro racer. That said, you are much more of a badass on the bike than I am.

[outthere]

Race tech offers gold valves for a Buell. They explain what the differences are compared to stock. The rebuild is a fixed price no matter if stock parts are used or there valves. For $360 I'll try em'. The entire bike is way better than what I'm use to riding. The track bike I had before this was an RD Yamaha. I had a small fortune invested in that bike. Got tired of fixing it.

[outthere]

I'm backtracking on the Race Tech mod's. Just going to service the suspension myself. If I botch it, I'll seek help. I have my eye on another coffee grinder so I'll add that $700 to the grinder fund.

The forks on the Yamaha were modded by RT but there archaic in comparison.

[Cooter]

Glad you got that switch gone, 1/2 a beer job, right? Haha. I'm also looking for a type of brake pad that is much more aggressive than the street EBC "HH" ones I have now. Are Ferodos that much better?

Aaron is right that the OE Showa is a great fork for our bikes, I don't know anything about the Gold Valves, but fork oil weight choice is critical and your suspension looks to be bottoming according to your zip tie:).
I'm sure you can handle the oil and seal swap. I recommend getting the spring tool, well worth $20 for even one time. Lots of step-by-step instructions out there.
https://www.buellxb.com/forum/showthread.php?56264-Buell-XB-fork-service-by-NCCR

Hot Damn that RD is sweet:love_heart: Is there anything better than 2-smoke in the morning on track day??

[outthere]

Fork preload perfect according to Dave Moss. Ferodo Pads are very nice and feel great at the lever. Another good pad for track use is Vesrah. Real strong initial bite.

[Cooter]

Awesome, thanks for the info I'll get a set on the way. The tiny Horse thief Mile track at Willow Springs, taught me how dang huge the EBR is:( Especially after getting a session on a buddies Husky. WOW.

https://www.husqvarna-motorcycles.com/en-int/models/supermoto/701-supermoto-2020.html

[rb70383]

Ok dumb question time.... How did you know the forks were too high? The stock ones have that stopper ring, but how do you make sure the bike is level when you don't have a 'stop'?
I'm swapping tress and forks soon, granted I'm using a stock tree but I am wondering that if I didn't go with stock.
Outthere, nice bike.

I have a set of diamond blues wheels as well...:)

[Cooter]

I thought you meant 3/8" rearwards 'chopper style' not 3/8" lower...

[34nineteen]

I’m not going to say anything.

[outthere]

Top clamp on a XB12r is a bit different than the one I use as far as thickness goes and the way it takes up slack at the bearing. Turns out the difference is only 3/16". Should still make a diff. the way the bike behaves on turn in. I'll take pics when I service the forks.

[outthere]

I’m not going to say anything.

I'm all ears:eagerness:

[rb70383]

What brake line is used for the EBR MC swap? I swapped over to the ZTL2 with the EBR MC. The ZTL2 line needs a sharper bend, ~90-70 degrees, at the MC. Is there a stock line to swap or should I get a venhill line made up? Bike is an 03 9R.

Venhill (https://www.venhillusa.com/make-your-own-custom-brake-line-1.html)

[Cooter]

I used the stock line with no problems?