Heat soak shut down.

Okay fellow Buellers I got a crazy one and need some extra brain power. Have a 2005 xb12r 38k on it. Last year started having some serious cutting out during the hotter times of the year. Morning ride to work no issues after noon as soon as I hit the freeway about 3 miles into the ride bike started cutting out badly and back firing enough I turned back and left the bike at my shop. Had done the fuel pump a season before so I figured maybe ignition... New plug wires and ignition coil later made the ride home without incident. Few rides later started again. Spent some time on here looking for clues. New TPS and a couple resets later went on a 100+ mile ride without incident. Next time out bike started cutting out again but got me home. Put in new fuel pressure regulator rode to work next day without incident on my way home bike died 4 times and didn't want to restart fuel pump coming on with switch but cranks without fire for 2-3 min then starts and runs for about 1000 feet. Get her home and decided to do the pump again to rule it out seems like it's running out of fuel. New pump installed go on a ride maybe 10 miles back home no issues. Wash bike take wife to go get tacos 6-7 miles from home no issues. Get back on bike after 45 min feel the heat on the frame side above the exhaust as is normal from a ride. Take off from the taco place bike cuts out a bit on take off so I take it easy so I can make it home about 3/4 mile down the road bike dies I pull off the road into a parking lot bike cranks no start try a few times and it may start for 5 seconds and die. Get a ride home to get the truck and trailer get back to the bike start it and pull it into the trailer no problem. Sorry for the long back story but I wanted to make sure you had all the info. So my assumption at this point is something is going sideways once the bike has had a chance to heat everything up but I don't know what could cause it to die like this. Please help!!! 😭

Are you getting any CEL's? Do you have Buelltooth to get an error codes? Or jump the wire the old fashioned way?

Here are some guesses - Bike running too hot? Can you measure cylinder temps? Is your fan working properly? https://www.buellxb.com/forum/showth...rheating/page2

Lunaticfringe is our go-to guru https://www.buellxb.com/forum/showth...in-hot-weather

Some folks think it's the voltage regulator https://www.buellxb.com/forum/showth...-concern/page2

Thanks for the detailed symptom report:up:
Most heat related misfire problem threads I've seen, end up being the CPS. You can test it with a hair dryer or heat gun. It's cheap if you just want to throw parts at it...

You can get a manual download for free at Buellmods.com or Buelltooth.com

Endopotential, " Here are some guesses - Bike running too hot? Can you measure cylinder temps? Is your fan working properly?
This is the first question that needs to be answered !

Bueltooth... No CEL not hot enough to even kick on fan most rides.

What is your AFV at? My 05 xb12r just went through it's second pump within 7k miles.

it's very simple to diagnose...a bit more complicated to pinpoint. goes like this:
1-when the bike is idling and/or you're cruising along at normal speeds....particularly cruising....and it feels exactly as if you just turned the key off...or turned the kill switch to off....then it is ALWAYS electrical in nature.
2-still considering the above, if it feels like a "soft" shutdown meaning it gently dies and/or it dies but then sputters back to life and gently dies again....it's always fuel delivery related.
only you know from the "seat of the pants" what it feels like.
also note this: if you experience after-fire which is popping OUT THE EXHAUST that is almost always ignition/electrical related.
if you experience back-fire which is popping UP THRU THE INTAKE TRACT that is almost always fuel delivery related.
LASTLY.....remove your fusebox lid. see pic below. find your 3 relays. all 3 the same. remove just 1 and take to any auto parts store and match up. they are common ford/chrysler a/c relays rated 20amps. purchase 2!
carry with you and ride the bike. next time you get some heat in the motor and a few miles ridden and if it acts up, immediately pull over and remove fusebox lid. feel all 3. any extremely warm to the touch? if so that one is suspect and will be either the key switch OR ignition relay. the start relay has NO bearing on your problem. immediately replace the warm one and see if problem subsides. if so it's a faulty relay.

Attachment 12125

^^^+1 Listen to him^^^. FWIW having the same year model those 3 relays are compatible with a 05 Ford focus A/C clutch relay at any auto parts store

Damn Lunatic, you are the damn Buell whisperer!!

107.3%

Well o don't know what happened to yesterdays posts but I guess I'll go over again... Got two relays and when about some testing started bike and let idle for 20 min (fan came on) no failure but temp on relays where top 2 135° bottom 103°... Killed it for about 45 trying to duplicate the last failure started and rode around the (I have a circle) drive way for 15 min not an issue... Today put the relays in my pocket jumped on the bike as soon as I lifted it up to pull the kick stand bike dies start switch off and on no crank WTF cycled key gauges sweep pump primes bike starts 🤤 ...so I when out riding I live in the country so I just did laps around my block (4 miles) so not to get too far away in case a tow was in the cards. I was mean to him hard pulls to limit seems to be riding just fine... About lap 2 I pull out on to highway hammer it grab second front tire comes off the ground for about 50 feet (not pertinent information for troubleshooting but why I love this bike🥰🤫) however bike cuts out between 5-6 k and is somewhat consistent over the next 6 pulls always cutting out between 5-6k so I take it easy spying the side of the road for the glove I lost when I trailered him back last week get close to home and make some hard pulls no cut out no sputter so now I'm more confused than before 😔. Guess I'll be carrying these relays around for a while.... Any thoughts???

Ok, 107.3 from what i understand is tolerable but may be high for your bike, 100 is the target number but there is flexibility. My bike runs beautiful at 110% but I bump it to 112% for a smoother steady throttle. Have you pulled the pump yet? Still sounds like a failing pump to me. Mine did the same thing for close to 700 miles before I replaced it but it will eventually fail. Just recently as i said before my second pump stared cutting out and popping same as you only this time I replaced it immediately. Problem fixed. The last thing members want you to do is just throw money at the bike but it's a well known part to fail and if original probably a good time to replace considering the age, also Lunaticfringe sells them I believe at a cheaper price than ebay or other vendors for board members( Found out after I bought mine ). If you do rebuild the fuel pump be sure to order a filter, O-rings for pump body ( Lunatic has those too ) and If i were you make sure the plastic flex hose within the pump is not punctured. Other than that, it's really not too bad of a job.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lunaticfringe

Any thoughts???

yes......i do.


you're beating the living sh*t out of a 14 year old buell that was never built for or intended to suffer such abuse. how do i know? in 1 single long-winded paragraph you mentioned letting it "idle" for over 20 minutes which is inexcusable...."i was mean to him" which screams abusive riding......wheelies for 50 ft.....repeated WOT pulls to near red-line....and "hammering" this bike.
this is the beginning of your endless problems.
good luck.

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Lol a race bike that wasn't intended to be raced... Did you miss where I'm trying to test a failure? It's not like it's treated this way every time I ride so unbunch your panties.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TapRoot

Ok, 107.3 from what i understand is tolerable but may be high for your bike, 100 is the target number but there is flexibility. My bike runs beautiful at 110% but I bump it to 112% for a smoother steady throttle. Have you pulled the pump yet? Still sounds like a failing pump to me. Mine did the same thing for close to 700 miles before I replaced it but it will eventually fail. Just recently as i said before my second pump stared cutting out and popping same as you only this time I replaced it immediately. Problem fixed. The last thing members want you to do is just throw money at the bike but it's a well known part to fail and if original probably a good time to replace considering the age, also Lunaticfringe sells them I believe at a cheaper price than ebay or other vendors for board members( Found out after I bought mine ). If you do rebuild the fuel pump be sure to order a filter, O-rings for pump body ( Lunatic has those too ) and If i were you make sure the plastic flex hose within the pump is not punctured. Other than that, it's really not too bad of a job.

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Yes I have a new pump filter and regulator in it now oem pump failed about 3 years ago when I rode on hot days I replaced it with a kenpo(I think) which is a cheaper replacement so to rule a fuel pump issue I did the new stuff 40miles ago it's a quantum pump and regulator.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lunaticfringe

a race bike that wasn't intended to be raced
so the Buell XB line were race-bikes? interesting. never knew that.


Did you miss where I'm trying to test a failure?
no


nd when about some testing started bike and let idle for 20 min
XB's....Tubes...XL's.....and XR's really enjoy this. weeds out the the weaklings from the main herd.

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Haha it is a problem that shows up with heat how else do you heat it up and the reason they engineered them with a fan and skip spark is to keep them from burning down and the fan hadn't even come on in that time.... And yes a sport bike with a factory produced race ECM was built to race don't be a d.

I'm gonna nitpick.
The XB was specifically built for the street. It was not built to race. There are numerous interviews with Erik about just this, as well as all of the advertising.
He always referred to the CityX as a Streetfighter.

They just happen to also be a really fun track bike that had the option of a full tuning kit which they labelled a race kit.
I am not 100% on the following statement, but I am pretty sure that was due to legal reasons. Call it a race kit, state it's not for street use, and you are removed from emission liability.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lusiphur

I'm gonna nitpick.
I am not 100% on the following statement, but I am pretty sure that was due to legal reasons. Call it a race kit, state it's not for street use, and you are removed from emission liability.

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emissions and insurance. Tell the EPA and the insurance company that you are riding a race bike with special racing parts.

Yup

Buelltooth.com has a nice blurb about this

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BUELLtooth

Stock VS "Race" ECM

The term "Race ECM" is often misused. Many people associate this term with performance/aftermarket ECMs marked with "race use only" and the common misperception is that they are a different piece of hardware than stock units, which they are not. The only difference is the engraving which is due to the fact that a non-emissions compliant tuning is installed.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lusiphur

Yup

Buelltooth.com has a nice blurb about this

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I'm aware that the changes to the actual track bike are many but it is the same bike in many respects. Don't want to argue just don't get on me for trying to get whatever is wrong to fail in a controlled way vs stranding me on the side of the road on my way to work on a 100° day. And I appreciate your knowledge so please don't misunderstand my responses as anything otherwise.