Code 13 Always lean

Okay need some opinions from some of the big brains here. The bike runs great around town and feels great at WOT all the way to redline, but once getting on the highway as soon as I hit 80mph light comes on, lean code, stumbles a bit and runs horrible until it is shut off and restarted.

Mods... buelltooth exhaust, K&N, opened up air box lid.

8k miles on the bike and it’s a 2006 XB12R

What has been changed or checked since it started.
New plugs, coil, wires - no change
New o2 sensor- AFV was in the 110 to 115 range before this and now it’s in the 90’s after the change but still getting the light
Cleaned all grounds
Multiple TPS resets
All sensor read outs look good, nothing jumps out as out of spec.
Checked for intake manifold leaks and there does not appear to be any.
Battery and charging system are good.

Any ideas would be appreciated.

So once you shut it off and restart it, the problem goes away ?

Yeah, shut it off and restart and the stumble and lean pops go away until you get back up to cruising at 75-80 again and the check engine light comes back and and starts the shenanigans again. Rides great at all RPM’s and throttle setting, pulls very well up to 110+ MPH. Yet any steady throttle at turnpike speeds instant lean code.

Should also add I changed the VSS last year but for an unrelated problem, also shook down every wire with it running to see if I had a break in the harness somewhere.... no change.

Throttle body is very clean and the bike does not use any oil.

I’ve read through probably a few hundred posts on here looking for a solution and all the usual suspects keep coming up negative.

Then to eliminate your fuel pump, check the pressure and flow rate.

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Originally Posted by njloco

Then to eliminate your fuel pump, check the pressure and flow rate.

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My guess is Njloco just hit the nail on the head! I experienced this with my 04xb12r last summer. Fuel pump rebuild- filters - pump- regulator. My problem was solved with this HFP kit although there are a few other great options out there.

3.9 out of 5 stars 5 Reviews
HFP-361-BUR Fuel Pump with Strainer and Regulator Replacement for Buell Firebolt XB12 EFI (2003-2010)

Thanks for the input.

Well, loaded the original tune back on the bike as a shot in the dark...new tune had been on the bike for a few months, but I don’t recall if I went on the highway since it was loaded. Anyway, stock tune back on the bike, go for a spin... no problems. Can tell it’s a bit lean, but no stumble, no check engine light. Cruised at 80-90 with no issues. I think the tune I got from Buelltooth may be the issue. Only thing that really stands out with the buelltooth tune as odd are the rich / lean voltage is way different than the stock settings.

I’ll definitely start getting the parts together though to service the fuel pump... probably just to do it as preventive maintenance at this point.

Now to find a different tune...

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Originally Posted by The Pilot

Thanks for the input.

Well, loaded the original tune back on the bike as a shot in the dark...new tune had been on the bike for a few months, but I don’t recall if I went on the highway since it was loaded. Anyway, stock tune back on the bike, go for a spin... no problems. Can tell it’s a bit lean, but no stumble, no check engine light. Cruised at 80-90 with no issues. I think the tune I got from Buelltooth may be the issue. Only thing that really stands out with the buelltooth tune as odd are the rich / lean voltage is way different than the stock settings.

I’ll definitely start getting the parts together though to service the fuel pump... probably just to do it as preventive maintenance at this point.

Now to find a different tune...

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I can tell you that When you pay for Dave’s (at Buelltooth) tuning service- He will dial it in for you dead on! I paid his fee to tune my Hammer build and it is amazing! He was super easy to work with and very supportive. I am trying to learn how to tune myself and am not ready to risk it yet by doing it myself. In time- I’ll get there.

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Originally Posted by The Pilot

Thanks for the input.

Well, loaded the original tune back on the bike as a shot in the dark...new tune had been on the bike for a few months, but I don’t recall if I went on the highway since it was loaded. Anyway, stock tune back on the bike, go for a spin... no problems. Can tell it’s a bit lean, but no stumble, no check engine light. Cruised at 80-90 with no issues. I think the tune I got from Buelltooth may be the issue. Only thing that really stands out with the buelltooth tune as odd are the rich / lean voltage is way different than the stock settings.

I’ll definitely start getting the parts together though to service the fuel pump... probably just to do it as preventive maintenance at this point.

Now to find a different tune...

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>Old Tune no running issues.
>Install New Tune and there are running issues.
>Reinstall Old Tune and running issues go away.

You probably don't have a fuel pump issue.

Is your new tune making EEPROM changes?
Is it making only fuel map changes or both fuel and timing map changes?

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Originally Posted by mmcn49

>Old Tune no running issues.
>Install New Tune and there are running issues.
>Reinstall Old Tune and running issues go away.

You probably don't have a fuel pump issue.

Is your new tune making EEPROM changes?
Is it making only fuel map changes or both fuel and timing map changes?

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Update to the update, stock exhaust and tune back on the bike. Put 40 miles on it today, code 13 again as soon as I hit 80mph. AFV steady at 100.5, but idle did rise up to 1300-1400 for probably 2 minutes after getting off the highway. Going to load the parts cannon and do the fuel pump and intake seals. Would like to just change them anyway just to have fresh stuff in there... no idea how long this bike was in storage before I got it. Anyway, will update if this fixes the code 13 issue once I swap them out. Then work from there on the other stuff.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by The Pilot

Update to the update, stock exhaust and tune back on the bike. Put 40 miles on it today, code 13 again as soon as I hit 80mph. AFV steady at 100.5, but idle did rise up to 1300-1400 for probably 2 minutes after getting off the highway. Going to load the parts cannon and do the fuel pump and intake seals. Would like to just change them anyway just to have fresh stuff in there... no idea how long this bike was in storage before I got it. Anyway, will update if this fixes the code 13 issue once I swap them out. Then work from there on the other stuff.

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Replace the Throttle Body seals with Genuine James seals, don't use the HD seals. You can purchase GJ seals from St. Paul HD/Buell. I tuned my 07TT with the old ECMSpy and Megalog Viewer. Things worked out pretty well. Are you using the old ECMSpy on your 06?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mmcn49

Replace the Throttle Body seals with Genuine James seals, don't use the HD seals. You can purchase GJ seals from St. Paul HD/Buell. I tuned my 07TT with the old ECMSpy and Megalog Viewer. Things worked out pretty well. Are you using the old ECMSpy on your 06?

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I'm about to do intake seals as well, and noticed there are two types of James intake seals on SPHD. Blues sound like they are better but can be finnicky to install.

Since you are going to rotate the motor, it shouldnt be bad installing the James blue seals. However, if the motor is not going to be rotated, the stock Harley seals are probably the better bet. Even if you want to do the blue seals, you may want to also pick up a set of Harley OE seals (they are cheap from Harley and even cheaper from any independent shop), just in case you realize the James seals arent going to work out.

I only have experience with the Blue James seals. IMO they are a great product. Have no experience with the Black G.J. seals so I can't comment. They resemble the HD seals.

I own two 07-XB12STT's. The stock HD seals started leaking around 10K miles on both bikes. They IMO are junk. Unless they've been revised and improved considerably I would not use.

The blue seals are not overly difficult to install especially with the engine rolled. I did one bike with the engine unrolled but it was up on a table lift. It took longer to do and was a little more difficult but not impossible.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mmcn49

I only have experience with the Blue James seals. IMO they are a great product. Have no experience with the Black G.J. seals so I can't comment. They resemble the HD seals.

I own two 07-XB12STT's. The stock HD seals started leaking around 10K miles on both bikes. They IMO are junk. Unless they've been revised and improved considerably I would not use.

The blue seals are not overly difficult to install especially with the engine rolled. I did one bike with the engine unrolled but it was up on a table lift. It took longer to do and was a little more difficult but not impossible.

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Ha! I'm calling you next time I do a set without a rotate! I found it to be a huge PITA with the James Blue seals (with the lip). I couldnt get the intake to sit squarely over the ports due to the lips. I'm not saying they are not a great product, just the situation made them more difficult to install than I was willing to deal with. I also didnt want to have to go back in if there was a problem. On my Sportster I'd choose them any day.

This allen wrench, Yost Performance Intake Manifold Wrench WRNB, $13 on Amazon. A thin film of Superlube on the seals and a Table Lift did the trick.

This has to be a case of old versus young and innovative ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^.

Ordered one thanks. Not through Amazon

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Originally Posted by njloco

This has to be a case of old versus young and innovative ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^.

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How about Experienced and Innovative Vs Young.:)

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Originally Posted by 34nineteen

ha! I'm calling you next time i do a set without a rotate! I found it to be a huge pita with the james blue seals (with the lip). I couldnt get the intake to sit squarely over the ports due to the lips. I'm not saying they are not a great product, just the situation made them more difficult to install than i was willing to deal with. I also didnt want to have to go back in if there was a problem. On my sportster i'd choose them any day.

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wow how helpless are you? If you spent half as much time actually working on the bike than whining about it, you may get something done.

and you wonder why some think most of you replys suck

Edit: Ok, too harsh. Sorry.

I'm so dang tired of the tribalism and negativity on here lately:(

That is why we are losing members. Is it too much to ask to share motorcycle stories and knowledge in a pleasant manner:confused:

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Originally Posted by outthere

and you wonder why some think most of you replys suck

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If you can do better, man up and contribute.

By "dick" do you mean "someone who called out someone for being a whiner"? If so, then yes I am am dick.

That guy whines about everything, derails conversations, gives half-assed non committal replies. You at least make the effort and put your neck out there and offer advice. Right or wrong, you are at least contributing to the general good of the forum.

Which Dick did you get rid of ? If your talking about John you best watch your mouth.

What did I miss ?

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Originally Posted by Outlaw

Which Dick did you get rid of ? If your talking about John you best watch your mouth.

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I'm sure he was talking about 36whateverteen guy. Cooter is a quality guy.

And my post, #20 was aimed at post #19.

Well update to the update, decided to try loading the original tune again and did another TPS reset. Bike runs fine on the original tune, put 50 miles on it... no check engine light, no code 13, no stumble on the highway. Guess it was an issue with the tune Buelltooth sent me after all. I can definitely tell it’s running lean on the stock file with the aftermarket exhaust... the lean pops on decel are ridiculous. Anyway, I’ll hit up Buelltooth and see if they have another version they can send me...

Thanks for all the help ����

Quote:

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Originally Posted by The Pilot

Well update to the update, decided to try loading the original tune again and did another TPS reset. Bike runs fine on the original tune, put 50 miles on it... no check engine light, no code 13, no stumble on the highway. Guess it was an issue with the tune Buelltooth sent me after all. I can definitely tell it’s running lean on the stock file with the aftermarket exhaust... the lean pops on decel are ridiculous. Anyway, I’ll hit up Buelltooth and see if they have another version they can send me...

Thanks for all the help ����

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Do you have the Old version of ECMSpy, (for 03-07 Buells)?

I have the most current version of ECMspy, but the tune was uploaded with ECM droid as sent to me with no changes. Only got spy just to make sure the map was not jumbled up like I have seen happened to some other people after I found out I had a problem.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by The Pilot

I have the most current version of ECMspy, but the tune was uploaded with ECM droid as sent to me with no changes. Only got spy just to make sure the map was not jumbled up like I have seen happened to some other people after I found out I had a problem.

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I've used the old ECMSpy & MLV to tune with good results. With the old ECMSpy you're able to get a 3D view of the fuel and timing maps. Comparing the maps makes it pretty easy to see where there are substantial differences. If you know the approximate throttle position and RPM where the issues are happening, you can smooth out cells in the problem area.

Okay, having read through this thread, arguments and tuning aside, I have the same problem and have done the same things on The Pilot's list. The only difference is that I'm running an APH exhaust but free-flow none the less. I have also gone back and forth with stock vs race eeprom. the problem always remains. I've also renewed inlet seals. Even got the standard ones to seal! Third attempt, anyway. My plugs, however, confirm that the rear cylinder is running a bit lean and the front is running rich. I've disabled the O2 sensor making changes by taking off open and closed loop learn and setting the max afv and ego corrections to 100. So, where now? would/ could a head gasket leak cause this intermittent fault and lean code? Any other ideas?

Thanks.

Well Chef, it probably won’t help you but for my issue I finally just got a new IDS ECU. Installed it today and the bike runs fantastic, no more code 13 at cruise at any speed. Engine seems smoother on the highway as well. Lots of pull... feels like a different bike.

Sorry for just seeing this. I know this is an old thread, but the AFV should not change from 100 on that Buelltooth tune. If open loop is enabled it will adjust itself lean (into the 90s). When using the file as it was sent to you the O2 sensor is still active to warn you if there is lean condition caused by a mechanical problem. If closed loop is enabled that will cause a problem. I run that same tune on my 2005 XB12 without issue.