ENGINE light with limp home mode?

Guys I've been chasing an engine light and subsequent limp home mode for a few years...

The bike runs great in the back up mode except for the ratty idle. I've ridden it thousands of miles with the light on. You gotta know it drives me outta my mind but... the first time it happened I rode it 400 miles home out of nessesity and realized it wasn't hurting anything other then gas mileage and the Idle.

I'm generally a good mechanic and it's currently at a certified Harley Master tech's place. Just at a loss on how to fix this turd.

I bought the bike new about 6 months after they shut down Buell... it's my Forever bike... no interest in selling it or doing anything but wearing it's happy ass out.



What we've done... There are no codes. and we've replaced several sensors as well as the O2 sensor... If the bike is allowed to cool off the light goes out and the bike runs perfectly for a few miles before it warms up and reverts to it's Turd like appeal.


Thoughts?

You will need to list the year of the bike and any modifications done to it ?

As requested above ^^^ What bike is it ? pics ? model ,yr ? is it a test bike ? etc.......

Certainly a "certified Harley Master tech" will do a diagnosis, before throwing a bunch of parts at it. What codes have been pulled from the ECM? What diagnosis has been performed? Specifically, which of the "several sensors" have been replaced?

I'm guessing you are now banking that bunch of keyboard warriors on the internet are going to be able to outsmart a trained, certified Harley master tech who has the bike in front of him. If thats the case, maybe you should find a new "certified Harley Master tech".

Theres definitely more to this story. You can't have a CEL without a code.

Please list the specifics of the bike, the diagnostic steps you've done, what sensors you threw at it, and any info that can help a bunch of strangers that have never seen your bike... guess at your issue for you.

Do you have, and can you use any diagnostic tools like ECMDroid? ECMSpy, or TunerPro?

The bike is an 09 XB12XT I talked to my buddy with the bike and it did have some codes and I'm sorry to say I didn't collect them. I'll have him send them to me. I had several broken wires in the steering neck area that had to be repaired and an Idle speed controller. ( little electonic bit on the upper right side of the airbox ) and the O2 sensor I previously mentioned.

This question is going to have to go on hold until I get the bike back, we've decided on doing that in a week or two... the guy and I are really good, Old friends and won't let this affect that. it's just stuff. he's talked to harley's tech department several times and they keep bringing up the throttle body, but the fix is to install the new Part number that my bike already has and it tests fine.

So in retrospect.. I was premature putting this out there.. I should have waited to have the bike in my hands. Just tickled to find a group of enthusisasts for Buell's... I'd honestly never really looked for one. I bought this bike new... simply because I loved the concept of the bike and have grown to love the bike itself over the years. it's only got 15k miles on it. Mostly because I buy and sell bikes as a hobby and always have other junk to ride. The Ulysses is "my" bike.. it being broke like this is a shame... If you look up my name you'll find I really am a fairly competent mechanic.

Thanks for taking the time guys... I'll get back to you when I have the scooter.

So, your course of action is to take your Forever bike back from your trusted old friend, the certified Harley master mechanic... and start taking advice from a bunch of strangers on a forum?

Sounds legit.

Attachment 12847

OK, you have asked a bunch of Buell enthusiasts for a favor to help you with a problem you haven't been able to fix. I think you'll find that most of us are ready to help a fellow Bueller that needs it.:eagerness:
I believe I know what your issue is:up:, but it will take a small amount of diagnosis to confirm it.

Since you and your friend are unable to fix this bike yourselves:upset: Be a a little humble.
Remember you are asking strangers for a favor. You want us to diagnose your bike, for free, that both you, and your "certified Harley Master tech" friend have not been able to do.

This doesn't help:

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Originally Posted by Keith Turk

I'm generally a good mechanic...

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Keith Turk

it's currently at a certified Harley Master tech's place

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Keith Turk

the guy and I are really good....

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Keith Turk

he's talked to harley's tech department several times... [and we ignored their advise](I added)

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Keith Turk

you'll find I really am a fairly competent mechanic.

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BTW Keith, I do know who you are, I respect what you do, and ya, you should be able to fix this yourself:D We have several common acquaintances in the old T.E.N. circle, including DF. Your 'personality' comes off a little strong on a first post like that.

Welcome to BuellXB:cool:

With out any in-depth understanding of your Buells issue I’m going to shoot from the hip: cracked ECM, seat rubbing on it :-)
electrical issues will make you humble or crazy...

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Originally Posted by pdksh

With out any in-depth understanding of your Buells issue I’m going to shoot from the hip: cracked ECM, seat rubbing on it :-)
electrical issues will make you humble or crazy...

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My guess is a failing fuel pump.

Sea Foam to the rescue.

Best answers in order of likeliness:
SEAFOAM - price is right
FUELL PUMP - see Jon aka lunatic
BROKEN ECM - good time for a factory tune

Common, need some updates

Don't forget the head temp sensor, that would trigger 'parade mode' and single cylinder operation. Easy to check with ECMDroid.

Here's the codes in the historic file

PO 154 oxygen sensor open
PO 506 Idle air control system Rpm higher then expected
PO 511 Idle air control curcuit fault
PL 470 Exhaust Valve actuator stuck open


Thanks for your thougths and the Warm Welcome

I wouldn't loose too much sleep about "PL 470 Exhaust Valve actuator stuck open" - disable it with ECMspy.

Have you visually reviewed the ECM (take it out of the bike) and verified it has no visual damage. Is the ECM in the factory location or has it been relocated? I tucked mine up by the rear shock and fabricated a tiny bracket to hold it. Some people cut the bottom of the seat tray.

I normally record the errors from the ECM, clear them and do a test drive. I believe the O2 Sensor is easily replaced with an automotive sensor from NAPA, but you will need to check for a part number cross reference.

Keep us in formed.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cooter

Don't forget the head temp sensor, that would trigger 'parade mode' and single cylinder operation. Easy to check with ECMDroid.

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Cooter makes a good point here. Another tell-tale sign of a wonky head sensor is that your fan doesnt turn on at all when the bike is shut down after being run to full operating temperature.

You'll want to make sure the fan is actually functioning first on its own, but that is very simple to check with ECMDroid.

I've had head temp sensors fail, and it didn't light the CEL... however the lack of a fan running on shutdown and the sound of fuel boiling in the tank were sufficient to alert me to the issue.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pdksh

I wouldn't loose too much sleep about "PL 470 Exhaust Valve actuator stuck open" - disable it with ECMspy.

Have you visually reviewed the ECM (take it out of the bike) and verified it has no visual damage. Is the ECM in the factory location or has it been relocated? I tucked mine up by the rear shock and fabricated a tiny bracket to hold it. Some people cut the bottom of the seat tray.

I normally record the errors from the ECM, clear them and do a test drive. I believe the O2 Sensor is easily replaced with an automotive sensor from NAPA, but you will need to check for a part number cross reference.

Keep us in formed.

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I'd also do what pdksh said about disabling the exhaust valve in ECMDroid, then clear all historic codes, and then go take it for a run and see what it comes back with. If the O2 or IAC codes come back, then you know where to focus. It could be those codes have been stored from years ago, and have already been resolved.

I've had the Exhaust valve error pop up from time to time (I like the stock exhaust), but its never affected performance as I could tell.

And John is calling out bad grounds. All are very likely culprits. I’m still betting on a bum ECM :-P

OK it’s January in Ontario. I am suffering from PMS (parked motorcycle syndrome) I need all the two wheeled stimulation I can get.

In response to Cooter's Head temp sensor? I don't have the bike, so I can't answer this... It's an interesting question.

Hmmm

I hope someones right, but without diagnosis... we are all just guessing for you.

I get, it's all a guess. One of my thoughts has been to buy a second 2009 Xt and simply swap parts till I find it.

Just bought a new Motus to ride while I'm waiting to get the Ulysses fixed.. Enjoying it... but I'd rather be on the Buell.

Mid 50°F yesterday, high 60'sF possible low 70'sF today, went out for a spin yesterday and will do again today !

I rode mine today too NJ! Runs so sweet:love_heart: And so dependable too with both cylinders firing:eagerness:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Keith Turk

One of my thoughts has been to buy a second 2009 Xt and simply swap parts till I find it.

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Is this how you became such a (self described) awesome, amazing, stellar, 'mechanic':confused:


Good luck. Because thats what you need, Keith:upset:

Swap till ya drop Baby!!! What’s better then one broken bike? Two broken bikes!!! Lol (the eventual outcome of non scientific trouble shooting)

Does the BUELL ecm have a limp mode? Like newer motorcycles, cars and ATVs? My buddies CAN-AM ATV will limp home when it has any sort of issue, including regular service counter. (very annoying sometimes). I don’t think the BUELL has an actual limp mode because then all of my bikes would be “limping” home regularly! Hehehe

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cooter

I rode mine today too NJ! Runs so sweet:love_heart: And so dependable too with both cylinders firing:eagerness:



Is this how you became such a (self described) awesome, amazing, stellar, 'mechanic':confused:


Good luck. Because thats what you need, Keith:upset:

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I'll try and be more Humble...

Okay got the bike back and just got back from a a test ride. It's about 75 degree's today and when I got back from the ride the Light was on again and I let it idle for a minute in the shop. Fan never came on.

So that's where I'll start. I don't currently have ECMDROID... or a way to communicate with the bikes ecu yet, So that's my first project. Any recommendations? (my wife found ECM DROID on her Cell ).. we'll see how good she is about sharing her phone... ( she's a Realtor.. my chances are about Zero ))

K

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Keith Turk

I'll try and be more Humble...

Okay got the bike back and just got back from a a test ride. It's about 75 degree's today and when I got back from the ride the Light was on again and I let it idle for a minute in the shop. Fan never came on.

So that's where I'll start. I don't currently have ECMDROID... or a way to communicate with the bikes ecu yet, So that's my first project. Any recommendations? (my wife found ECM DROID on her Cell ).. we'll see how good she is about sharing her phone... ( she's a Realtor.. my chances are about Zero ))

K

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You can start by checking ur fuses, Then you can test by hooking it up to 12V.

I thought you had a Harley master tech friend? Didnt he check the bike for codes and relay that info to you?

If you do not have access to an Android device... or want to purchase a cheap Android tablet from Walmart or some other discount retailer, you could always do this for free. All it takes is time. I googled "Buell diagnostic code retrieval" and this is what I found:

RETRIEVING TROUBLE CODES
PART NUMBER TOOL NAME
HD-44750 DIGITAL TECHNICIAN
Trouble codes may be retrieved without the use of the DIGITAL
TECHNICIAN (Part No. HD-44750).
1. Remove the protective cover from data link connector
[91A]. The data link connector's location is different for
each model. It is located under the fairing (Firebolt), under
the seat (Lightning) or behind the left airflow guide
(Ulysses).
2. To activate the diagnostic feature of the check engine
lamp, proceed as follows:
a. See Figure 2-6. Install diagnostic test wire from parts
shown.
b. See Figure 2-7. Install diagnostic test wire across
terminal "1" and terminal "2" on the data link connector
[91A].
c. Turn the Ignition Switch ON and wait approximately
eight seconds for the check engine lamp to start
flashing.
3. See Figure 2-8. All trouble codes are sent out as a series
of flashes. To retrieve the first digit of the trouble code
simply observe the number of times the check engine lamp
flashes.
a. The transmission of a trouble code is always preceded
by six rapid flashes (about 3 per second).
b. This "intermission" is followed by a 2 second pause
in which the check engine lamp is off.
c. The check engine lamp will then flash one or more
times to indicate the first digit of the trouble code.The
length of time the check engine lamp is illuminated
and the length of time in which it is off are each about
1 second in duration.
4. The second digit follows:
a. Following transmission of the first digit, there is
another 2 second pause in which the check engine
lamp is off.
b. The check engine lamp will then flash one or more
times to indicate the second digit of the trouble code.
Count the number of times the check engine lamp
flashes to retrieve the second digit.
5. If more than one trouble code is sent:
a. Following transmission of the second digit of the first
code, there is a third 2 second pause in which the
check engine lamp is off.
b. After the pause comes the intermission, which is followed by transmission of the next recorded trouble
code.
c. All subsequent codes are sent in the same manner
each separated from the next by he intermission.
6. Once all codes have been sent, the data string is repeated.
When you have recorded the same trouble code twice, it
is an indication that the transmission has been restarted
and that all trouble codes have been retrieved.
NOTE
If the check engine lamp flashes at a rate faster than normal,
then you are observing the "intermission" only, which means
that no trouble codes are present.
7. When examining trouble codes, write down all codes on
a piece of paper.
a. If trouble codes are present, refer to Table 2-13.
Follow the applicable flow charts for each code.
b. If trouble codes are NOT present, but starting or drive
ability problems are evident, see charts under
2.8 INITIAL DIAGNOSTIC CHECK.
8. Turn the Ignition Switch OFF.
9. Remove diagnostic test wire and install protective cover
over data link connector. Return data link connector to
original position

I'm going to look into a tablet at Wally world... I like the look of the ECUDROID... just checking out the few trouble shooting video's I've seen so far have convinced me it's a good idea.

Is a bluetooth Dongle device a requirement? Is there a Particular one I need?


Thanks for access to codes



Keith

The Buelltooth is for an Android phone, this allows you to basically look at your phone troubleshooting and adjusting certain parameters. Now, since I am not computer literate the members here will correct me if I'm wrong about this.
The fan on both my 2008 ully and 2007 SS both come on when I shut the engine down, even in the winter, they are both pretty much stock.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by njloco

The Buelltooth is for an Android phone, this allows you to basically look at your phone troubleshooting and adjusting certain parameters. Now, since I am not computer literate the members here will correct me if I'm wrong about this.
The fan on both my 2008 ully and 2007 SS both come on when I shut the engine down, even in the winter, they are both pretty much stock.

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If you get a Race tune from Tim @ IDS the fan doesn't run on once you shut the engine, Thank you Tim B. on XB and 1125s

All good suggestions above. Since you are still having problems I would suggest electrical tape. Just cut a piece small enough to cover the light. Fixed!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dantroop

All good suggestions above. Since you are still having problems I would suggest electrical tape. Just cut a piece small enough to cover the light. Fixed!

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My adult son was paralyzed a few years ago and I bought a handicap van so he could come home and visit... Yep.. someone did exactly this to it... the Airbag light wouldn't go off so they taped it. Took seatbelt cartridges and a sensor to fix the light...

Rear head temp sender Fixed it. Pulled the Fan, tested fine, replaced the Temp sending unit next. That's seemed to fix the issue. CEL is out and the bike runs normally.

I did buy a 2006 Ulyssess as a spare and plan on parting it out. Friend of mine knew I was shopping for one and we bought this one pretty cheap. it's not overly compatible with my 09 but several parts are useable ... ( I'll keep the stuff I can use. )... If you guys need anything let me know.

I sent you a PM I need some parts but if the bike is salvageable maybe a bike.

Rear plastic fender with the license plate light, and all the signals, foot pegs, external shifter linkage ?

Let me know.

Thanks

You guys can check out the bike on my instagram page KeithTurk200

I've sold the part's bike... Thanks for all your help guys

To me :eagerness:
Thanks Keith I'll work out the details ASAP.