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Thread: NRHS Stage 2 for 07 XB12R

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by lawdog View Post
    Nice catch! I don't have my old laptop with all my old information to look this up. Going off what I posted long time ago. Just did a BWB search and saw you were right. I swapped from the FP10153 (3.4 bar) to 135-22 (4 bar). As far as a XL1200... Dump a 100 lbs off that thing so it can handle then we'll talk! Haha. Also I use to run OP all the time as it was easy to map with the WB. But I like to tinker and wanted to see if I can get more mpg out of cruise. I may also play around with the actual CL region and CLL region to match up with my cruising area (XB9 primary swap). I don't know yet. More so for fun then any real benefit. But if I get the CL region dialed in at 14.7 I don't see a reason why it would lean out. I think some guys run into problems when they run the CL region richer (or just do a global map richer correction), which then causes the EGO, and eventually the AFR, to lean out to hit 14.7. But if you run 14.7 in CL the bike won't lean out in OL because the O2 sensor is reading rich (ignoring decel OLL). Of course I talk all this tuning semantics and then in about 2 months when I actually have a free minute without wife and kids pulling me in a million different directions I will probably throw on the WB, do a few runs to tune it all OL, end up running OL forever, and calling it a day. Never bothering with CL and dialing it all in. LOL
    Why tune to 14.7 to accommodate a narrow band O2 sensor? It will run cooler and have better throttle response at about 14.2. Plus, those sensors are not the most trust worthy. I only keep the O2 sensor active to sense and report a lean condition with a CEL in the event something mechanically goes south. In CL the ECM will just compensate for a problem without you knowing about it (with the factory CL settings anyway). Add a baro sensor for air pressure compensation. Using a NB O2 sensor for sensing elevation is a terrible idea. You have intake air and engine temp sensors to adjust for temperature. What else would the ECM be able to (and need to) adjust for in CL?

    This is an interesting write up, even though it's about Harleys: https://www.drdyno.com/AIM_2010-07.html

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by upaero View Post
    Why tune to 14.7 to accommodate a narrow band O2 sensor? It will run cooler and have better throttle response at about 14.2. Plus, those sensors are not the most trust worthy. I only keep the O2 sensor active to sense and report a lean condition with a CEL in the event something mechanically goes south. In CL the ECM will just compensate for a problem without you knowing about it (with the factory CL settings anyway). Add a baro sensor for air pressure compensation. Using a NB O2 sensor for sensing elevation is a terrible idea. You have intake air and engine temp sensors to adjust for temperature. What else would the ECM be able to (and need to) adjust for in CL?

    This is an interesting write up, even though it's about Harleys: https://www.drdyno.com/AIM_2010-07.html
    A lot of people disagree with you on this. Makes sense to me though.

  3. #63
    Senior Member outthere's Avatar
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    I've been running open loop for a few years using wideband O2 sensor and never an issue. AFV set to 103. Bike not street ridden though.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by outthere; 03-26-2021 at 04:36 PM. Reason: we all like pics

  4. #64
    Senior Member 34nineteen's Avatar
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    I can see why more knowledgeable riders like upaero and outthere run their bikes that way. They appear to both be extremely knowledgeable and well versed in the operation of their bikes and able to troubleshoot and resolve problems if and when they arise.

    For the rest of us, myself included, running like that is like giving a machine gun to a monkey. I can figure out *most* but not all issues on my own, but even I know that I can easily get in the weeds when given too much control over the tuning. I know just enough to be dangerous, and would need a lot of patience and hand holding if I ran my bike in that configuration. Pre-canned tunes are best for me.

    YMMV. Just my $0.02.

    On another note....hey outthere, what exhaust is that? It looks like you married a Force to a SS Drummer? I like it!

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by outthere View Post
    I've been running open loop for a few years using wideband O2 sensor and never an issue. AFV set to 103. Bike not street ridden though.
    Mike check this out. Shaved 4.5 lbs off the drivetrain with this setup. You need it.


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  7. #67
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    Did you guys change your timing at all from stock? I have left mine stock but Hammer Performance suggested Harley stock maps may be too aggressive for the big bore kits due to the higher compression.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike lowary View Post
    Mike check this out. Shaved 4.5 lbs off the drivetrain with this setup. You need it.

    What primary is that? And do the do multiple ratios?

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by lawdog View Post
    Did you guys change your timing at all from stock? I have left mine stock but Hammer Performance suggested Harley stock maps may be too aggressive for the big bore kits due to the higher compression.
    Yes the ignition timing maps were changed. The stock and race timing maps are ok up to a certain point. What’s your compression ratio now? Did you get the 30 degree reverse dome pistons?

  10. #70
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    Should have blown up the pic before asking. Thatís what I get for looking at stuff on my phone.



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