DDFI-3 tuning with stock o2 sensor

[lowkey]

If anyone knows more about how the IDS DDFI-3 ECM processes EGO correction during open loop and WOT, please speak up if I'm not correct in the above statement.

It doesn't process EGO in those two portions of the map, open a datalog and open your fuel map. Watch the log while the fuel map cells are lit corresponding to the log, once the lit cells go out of closed loop the EGO reports the last EGO correction (last closed loop cell correction) until TPS/RPM falls back into closed loop where it again regains control over correcting the fuel map. As you previously posted and you understand, the ECM has a 5% additional fuel added to open loop cells and 10% additional fuel added to WOT cells. Also you have to factor in the acceleration enrichment table, AFV correction, etc...

I believe on page 3 or 4 of this thread there is a log file screen grab from Mcaff demonstrating this exact description.

EDIT: One caveat to the above statement is that if you have open loop learn enabled and under acceleration EGO gets an 02 sensor voltage leaner than 14.7 it will push AFV for a richer value. Under open loop deceleration with learn enabled, an O2 sensor voltage richer than 14.7, EGO will push AFV for a leaner value.

http://ecmspy.com/ug_mono/V2.0/o2setup.shtml
Go to this link and scroll down to "OLL and AFV settings"

If you want AFV to react for lean conditions (in open loop) quicker, change the delay from 2 seconds to 0, this way EGO changes AFV richer if it encounters lower than 14.7 in open loop instantly.

For more info on open loop percentage correction applied and WOT percentage applied have a look here from "open loop" down:http://ecmspy.com/ug_mono/V2.0/corre...html#open-loop

[Mesozoic]

Who can confirm that the NB input to the DDFI-3 ECM is 5V tolerant? The last thing you want to do is fry the microprocessor. If you can replace your NB sensors with WBO2 sensors and the ECM is 5V tolerant on the NB input pins, you're really in business. I would simply disable closed loop completely and tune the the open loop, high load, WOT regions with the WBO2 inputs. It's probably best done on the dyno, though.

I would suspect that the 1203cc Thunderstorm cylinder head isn't quite as efficient as the 1125cc Helicon head (partly in due to static compression ratio), so that would explain the lower "old school" AFR target that is closer to 13.0:1.

All this got me stoked again on tuning, so I've ordered a replacement sensor for my Powerdex WB!

[lowkey]

Who can confirm that the NB input to the DDFI-3 ECM is 5V tolerant? The last thing you want to do is fry the microprocessor. If you can replace your NB sensors with WBO2 sensors and the ECM is 5V tolerant on the NB input pins, you're really in business. I would simply disable closed loop completely and tune the the open loop, high load, WOT regions with the WBO2 inputs. It's probably best done on the dyno, though.

Consider the countless Buells tuned with a WB confirmed if you'd like. The process is outlined in the links I provided as well.

0-5V 02 sensor output.jpg

unedited O2 values from stock ADX file, This is where you would edit voltage values to correspond with the values provided from whichever WB people go with (stated earlier needs to match the provided graph so AFR values are accurate).

You can't utilize the WB for ECM input as the reference values are based around 0-1V.
O2 sensor values.jpg

I know what your thinking... why not just up the values to cover the 0-5V range. There is a lot more going on in the background. I'll just say at this time it is not possible...

[Cooter]

Thanks guys, those are the answers I expected which makes me happy

I can confirm that the WB input to the stock ECM is fine and 'passes thorough' to the datalog file without issue.

I am running a DDFI-3 BUE2D with a front NB O2 sensor (enabled) now, and would like to get a dual WB sensor set-up to use for it (and possibly others).

Sounds like taking the delay off the AFV adjustment and using OLL are both enabling the ECM to make faster and more accurate changes. Any idea why the stock settings seem to be limiting the ECM's ability to change fuelling?

[lowkey]

MLV WB output.jpg
Here is all the preset WB sensors MLV offers.

MONO 02 sensor log output.jpg
Here are the two WB options MONO offers.

EDIT:

0-5V 02 sensor output.jpg
And the TunerProRT is fully scale able for practically any WB available.

[Cooter]

Boom!

[lowkey]

I would simply disable closed loop completely and tune the the open loop, high load, WOT regions with the WBO2 inputs. It's probably best done on the dyno, though.

You have it backward, disabling closed loop provides no ECM adjustment. Alternatively making the whole map closed loop would provide the ECM full cell adjustment BUT stuck at one 02 voltage value for target AFR across the entire map.

I would suspect that the 1203cc Thunderstorm cylinder head isn't quite as efficient as the 1125cc Helicon head (partly in due to static compression ratio), so that would explain the lower "old school" AFR target that is closer to 13.0:1.

Keep in mind the XB it is "air cooled", the extra fuel provides some amount of cooling in the combustion chamber. Running an AFR right on the line for power would have to deal with knock as the combustion chamber temperature gets hotter (no knock sensor on our bikes = very bad).

[lowkey]

Sounds like taking the delay off the AFV adjustment and using OLL are both enabling the ECM to make faster and more accurate changes. Any idea why the stock settings seem to be limiting the ECM's ability to change fuelling?

Open loop learn is on by default (BUEID), the delay is 2 seconds in the stock EEPROM. I have it set to 0 seconds right now, no idea why you would want a 2 second lean condition delay before adjustments are made...

For you only I can send my WB and plug-N-play harness when I am done with the video series. Are the DDFI3 NB plug ends the same 1 wire as DDFI2? Video will start coming soon I promise...

[Cooter]

Hmm, My OLL wasn't checked on the BUE2D ECM parameters. But I have no idea if it was a stock program when I started messing with it and bad on me for the assumption. I have no idea why adding a delay would be necessary either. Maybe we'll find out one day, lol.

That's super generous lowkey! I appreciate that hugely. Not only are these discussions informative, but I do find them entertaining as well (Dork alert!) haha.
The DDFI-3 O2 sensor plugs are single wire because they aren't pre-heated. I'm 98% sure they are the same as the DDFI-2 single wire plugs.

[lowkey]

Hmm, My OLL wasn't checked on the BUE2D ECM parameters. But I have no idea if it was a stock program when I started messing with it and bad on me for the assumption. I have no idea why adding a delay would be necessary either. Maybe we'll find out one day, lol.

That's super generous lowkey! I appreciate that hugely. Not only are these discussions informative, but I do find them entertaining as well (Dork alert!) haha.
The DDFI-3 O2 sensor plugs are single wire because they aren't pre-heated. I'm 98% sure they are the same as the DDFI-2 single wire plugs.

This is the problem with not backing up the stock EEPROM first! Haha you know better Cooter! As for the O2 plug ends, I was just curious if they are the same because I've already made the plug-N-play harness with a spare plug end (old O2 sensor) to feed the datalog output + signal to the harness wiring NB input. This way I can swap the input signal between the stock NB sensor installed in the rear header or the WB in the second bung on rear header pipe or move the sensor to the front header pipe bung I had welded in (3 bungs total on my header now).