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Thread: DDFI-3 tuning with stock o2 sensor

  1. #141
    Senior Member Cooter's Avatar
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    Oh I know, Bad Cooter! I'm only currently fluent in ECMDroid as a program swapper. Not a 'tuner' by long shot. The ECM parameters transfer with the fuel program in that format, so theres no telling what was OE stock or not in mine.

    I like bungholes too! I added the front one to run both sensors, so I guess I could use the stock NB in the rear as the ECM input and swap the front NB for a WB sensor to use for datalogging. But really, if CL is turned off for tuning the NB O2 wouldn't be used anyway.

  2. #142
    Senior Member lowkey's Avatar
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    I think you are over thinking it Cooter, lock parameters and adjust each cylinder map (individually if you use my WB), pop in the NB's and unlock the parameters again.

  3. #143
    Senior Member Mesozoic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowkey View Post
    You have it backward, disabling closed loop provides no ECM adjustment. Alternatively making the whole map closed loop would provide the ECM full cell adjustment BUT stuck at one 02 voltage value for target AFR across the entire map.
    Right, I do not want any closed loop adjustment when tuning OL and WOT. I want to run the engine at high load at various engine speeds and see where the open loop/WOT measured AFRs are, by using the WBO2 in each header pipe. On my XB I've installed the 2010 MY header with dual bungs. The 1125 came with dual bungs stock. The history tables in TunerPro RT would probably be best for this type of datalogging as you could set one up with your WBO2 transfer function implemented. With that data you could use MLV to help you get your commanded VE values inline with VE Analyzer. Ideally, you would replace both of your NB sensors with WB, but that gets expensive pretty fast.

  4. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by Mesozoic View Post
    Right, I do not want any closed loop adjustment when tuning OL and WOT.
    ... and you won't get CL adjustments if CL is mapped correctly. But you will, if not, and your OL/WOT tuning is ruined.

  5. #145
    Senior Member Mesozoic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunter View Post
    ... and you won't get CL adjustments if CL is mapped correctly. But you will, if not, and your OL/WOT tuning is ruined.
    Yes, this is true. Tune your closed loop before tuning your open loop otherwise you'll have a bike that really runs like ****. Don't ask me how I know.

    Fortunately, my AFV is 100% +/- 1% all throughout the closed loop range on both Buells (XB12 and 1125). Time for the WBO2!

  6. #146
    Senior Member lowkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunter View Post
    ... and you won't get CL adjustments if CL is mapped correctly. But you will, if not, and your OL/WOT tuning is ruined.
    Gunter, very well put. I couldn't find a way to relay this so simply as you have. I don't know how in depth you've been reading this thread but since you've graced us mere mortals, I hope you check in from time to time to share insight on questions.

    After reading through your MONO user guide, one question I have is how AFV% x OL% or WOT% x cell value calculated?
    Example. AFV%110 - WOT%110 - TPS row 255 - RPM 5500 - fuel cell value 245 = ? what is the equation for this example, and in what order is it processed?
    And what happens when the above equation exceeds 255?
    255 is = to 100% injector duty cycle or there is still a safe guard (head room) built in to account for AFV/OL/WOT additional fuel?

    Thank you for all you've done for the Buell community
    Last edited by lowkey; 03-08-2018 at 03:59 PM. Reason: more info

  7. #147
    Senior Member lowkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mesozoic View Post
    Fortunately, my AFV is 100% +/- 1% all throughout the closed loop range on both Buells (XB12 and 1125). Time for the WBO2!
    But AFV has no effect on closed loop.

    "Calibration
    When the engine is entering the calibration, or Learning Closed Loop (LCL), mode area, the exhaust gas oxygen level is evaluated to set up an adaptive correction, the Adaptive Fuel Value (AFV), that is applied in all areas outside the closed loop areas.
    http://www.ecmspy.com/ug_mono/V2.0/o2setup.shtml

    Did you mean EGO% in closed loop?

  8. #148
    Senior Member Mesozoic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowkey View Post
    But AFV has no effect on closed loop.

    "Calibration
    When the engine is entering the calibration, or Learning Closed Loop (LCL), mode area, the exhaust gas oxygen level is evaluated to set up an adaptive correction, the Adaptive Fuel Value (AFV), that is applied in all areas outside the closed loop areas.
    http://www.ecmspy.com/ug_mono/V2.0/o2setup.shtml

    Did you mean EGO% in closed loop?
    Yeah, my EGO correction is within 1% of 100% throughout both front and rear fuel maps. I just discovered that my existing WBO2 is not toast and calibrated just fine after 45 minutes of free air calibration. I ordered another earlier yesterday, so I should have 2 in a few days... whoops... I'll have to sort out the harness to power dual WBO2 if I want to use both of them simultaneously, though.

  9. #149
    Senior Member Mesozoic's Avatar
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    Well, I've tuned the front cylinder with about 8 or 9 iterations of street tuning, which meant hitting my local loops before and after work with the datalogging enabled and going full throttle at various RPM ranges. I typically aimed for 3000-4000 RPM, 4000-5000 RPM, and then 5000+ RPM data to really get a good picture of what the bike was doing. It turns out that my front cylinder was a bit rich - so rich that it was leaving some power on the table, for sure. With the stock NBO2 back in the hole and the open loop regions adjusted, it pulls much harder, cleaner, and revs much more freely than before. In fact, the free revving nature is something new and unexpected - the engine revs quicker and doesn't drop RPM as fast as it used to, which definitely caught me by surprise. Not sure what that's entirely due to, but my AFR targets at WOT were 13.2:1 (TPS 8-bit 255), 13.7:1 @ 175, 14.0:1 @ 125, and 14.3:1 @ 100 and that is certainly where the bike is after tuning with the wideband. The closed loop regions had to be tuned properly, but that's all possible to do with a stock NB anyway. As mentioned before, if the closed loop regions aren't properly tuned then the wideband OL tuning gets adjusted by the AFV. With the CL regions tuned properly, the AFV will remain at or near 100% (ideally) and the OL wideband tuning will be applied more accurately.

  10. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowkey View Post
    In which case you could have the firmware flashed at the dealership to BUE2D then have the capability right? Cole, I PM'd you a couple questions I need answered so I can send a member a map for his bike. Thanks
    I know I'm dredging this thread up from the dead, but there is no answer one way or the other from what I'm reading on this. Also, why a dealership? Can't you just flash the eeprom with ecmspy since we can view and edit the complete hex code?


    Last edited by Lnhiv; 10-09-2018 at 07:12 PM.

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