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Thread: General tuning options and discussion in 2017 (ECMDRoid,ECMSpy etc...)

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    Senior Member lowkey's Avatar
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    General tuning options and discussion in 2017 (ECMDRoid,ECMSpy etc...)

    Notice: This conversation was taken from another thread, some of the info was removed to streamline to the heart of the conversation. My thought is to get more eyes on the discussion and have people with knowledge contribute for the good of the forum. These quotes are only to get the ball rolling and in no way anything other than a discussion between Cooter and I.



    Quote Originally Posted by lowkey View Post
    Here is the list of all XB ECM's

    BUECB XB9 - model year 2003
    BUEGB XB - model year 2004
    BUEIB XB - model years 2005-2007
    B2RIB XB - model years 2005-2007 (Factory Race ECM)
    BUEIC XB - model years 2005-2007 (Japan only)
    BUEOD XB - model years 2008 and later
    BUEWD XB, 1125 - model years 2008 and later
    BUEYD XB, 1125 - model years 2008 and later
    BUEZD XB, 1125 - model years 2008 and later
    BUE1D XB, 1125 - model years 2008 and later
    B3R1D XB, 1125 - model years 2008 and later (EBR Race ECM)
    BUE2D XB, 1125 - model years 2008 and later
    BUE3D XB, 1125 - model years 2008 and later
    B3R3D XB, 1125 - model years 2008 and later (EBR Race ECM)

    Of all those, buelltooth only offers a comparable map for BUE2D and BUEGB. Buellmods files are all .txt format. OP has an 07 so BUEIB ECM, no .xpr files available.

    I was just genuinely curious if you had access to more files as I can't find them and the "hot new thing" is a bluetooth dongle/ECMDriod, which will leave all but owners of 2 ECM types screwed if they thought they were going to be able to flash a map... (which i'm dealing with helping a fellow forum member with right now)

    I have found a way to make compatible .xpr files but can only do so for BUEIB model ECM's because it involves using the bike and that is the ECU I have (involves much more than that). The ones that are profiting off of these dongles should really take the time to put together a database for ALL ECM's or not promote that this is one of the capabilities one could do once they buy said dongle.

    In theory I could do all DDFI2 EEPROM files in the .xpr format but I'm not going to risk my ECM to try it!

    You just promoted the use of ECMDroid so seemed like you may have the answers I need.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cooter View Post
    I have nothing to do with that company. I find it a very helpful resource and pretty complete in offering most all of the open source Buell stuff in one location. Same reason I send people to Buellmods.com, twinmotorcycles.com, and now sphdonline.com()...
    IMHO, Since their only business is selling the Buelltooth dongles, (And I really don't know how much they are "profiting" at $45 each for a niche motorcycle part), I think they just need to sell a product that works and their business is done. I don't believe the dongles capability of changing fuel maps means they need to have every single firmware map available on their site? It's just a communication device. Everything else on there is free... I like free! I'm just telling people where to get what they asked for. You don't need to buy a dongle.
    I feel the sellers of the bluetooth devices have more "skin in the game" than your average forum member to make the missing .xpr files, in the end they will be seeing more sales with these files available won't they? I find it misleading to mention the ability to flash said maps when they currently don't exist, at least publicly right now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cooter View Post
    Seriously, in the just the last week(!!) the 'Mr 2 post' people have asked for how-to vids:
    ​Buell Tuning Guide V2.0
    ​ECMspy Tuning Guide V1.6 by Steve Turnbull.
    TunerPro RT Instruction Manual for Buell Motorcycles by Jared Zuech

    Downloads:
    EcmDroid
    EcmSpy
    TunerPro RT
    Megalogviewer
    XPR Fuel and Timing Maps Extractor
    XDF Definition Files for TunerPro
    ADX Definition Files for TunerPro
    I think the problem is most of the things you listed are no longer being passed around for one reason or another (yes, I know what they are. We don't need to go into detail on each one) Having said that if you have the .xpr file extractor, hook it up! My plan is to get a dummy GMAIL and use the DRIVE account so that the ones listed that are still allowed to be shared can be directly linked, hopefully a sticky on this site!

    Quote Originally Posted by Cooter View Post
    What I would really like to see is the firmware change to get to open-source (that guy got quiet), so the older versions could be upgraded to BUE2D (at least) without the nightmare I just went through at H-D Lots of those firmwares were "glitchy" (Ahem... AFV values...) hence the superseding to BUE2D.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cooter View Post
    If you can't find the BUEID fuel map you want, you could have H-D change the firmware to BUE2D. Or ask the sources that have other maps (like Buelltooth)? I've never asked before but maybe they have the capability to change it? or a map they haven't linked too yet? Dunno, but worth an ask....
    As far as I'm aware, this is not possible... for example BUEID is DDFI2 and is the latest firmware for that version. BUE2D is the latest firmware for DDFI3

    Quote Originally Posted by Cooter View Post
    As far as ECMDroid, I tell the new kids it's better for them because it is MUCH easier to use, the safeties are in place to stop them from installing the wrong firmware tune (TunerPro and ECMSpy don't have that) and because even diagnosis and datalogging are easier to do wirelessly to your phone or tablet vs. a laptop and cable in your backpack. Theres less options to adjust, but that's less to mess up too!

    All these are opinions. YMMV.
    Problem is... from my understanding ECMDroid is flashing complete EEPROM data and not just map data, at least that is the only option I see. .xpr is full EEPROM data as far as I know, I don't see how this is safe for instance if someone got a hold of racemap.xpr file and flashed? Would it pull just the map data or flash the entire EEPROM making the ECM useless.
    Last edited by lowkey; 05-08-2017 at 02:33 AM.

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    Senior Member lowkey's Avatar
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    LK, thanks for the great post. Might be worth asking a mod to make it
    a sticky.

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    Senior Member Cooter's Avatar
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    They just sell dongles to communicate with the bike? Why would anyone owe you a free map?

    I didn't click all the links, Heck I wouldn't know how to use that stuff if I did! You should probably ask them to get fixed, then you can share them from your /DRIVE account. More places to get them from the better!

    You are totally correct, I mis-spoke about firmware versions. You cannot interchange DDFI-2 ('03-'07) and DDFI-3 ('08-) firmware. My bad. See! This is why no one should listen to me. Ever!

    Describe the difference you mean by "complete EEPROM data" vs. "map data"?
    It is my understanding all of these fuel maps are just fuel maps (including .xpr files). and all we can do is swap that info (using ECMDroid, ECMSpy, or TunerPro) into similar ECM's (same firmware)
    "complete EEPROM data" includes the firmware (the way H-D does it at the dealer) so it doesn't matter the current firmware version on the ECM, it just overwrites everything including the firmware up to their latest specs. Currently that capability (flashing a complete EEPROM) is getting worked on to be open-source, but not currently available that I know of..

    Anyone??


    EDIT:
    I found this on the Buelltooth site. In huge orange letters no less.... Hahaha Send them an e-mail!

    *There are many ECM firmware versions. Tuning files for other versions are made for Buelltooth customers free of charge. Email your request including ECM type, year and model of bike and exhaust system here.

    And lowkey, I've got a couple ECM's in the garage I got traded for. Let me go through them. You want a BUEID stock tune? That's gotta be super common right??
    Last edited by Cooter; 05-08-2017 at 04:39 PM.

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    Senior Member AZmidget91's Avatar
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    The complete EEPROM thing is misleading. Both of you are right. I don't know of anyone giving out JUST maps. They are usually what Lowkey is calling a complete EEPROM. Then Cooter is correct in the fact that if we had the ability to flash the actual "complete EEPROM" we could change firmware because the complete EEPROM includes that info. When you are reading your EEPROM and it is showing how many pages have been read, there are a couple more pages that none of the current tuning softwares touch, which include firmware.

    There are places to get tunes. Buellmods.com and even Buelltooth.com. Neither of those places came up with any of their tunes, they are just copied from Race ECM's and of tunes purchased from tuners.

    I however will be starting to develop my own tunes for specific mufflers, starting this week. I have a stack of mufflers here to make tunes for.

    Honestly, this is all a lot of work, and to do it for free, you have to either be taking someone else's work, charge a lot of money for, or be passionate about it. I'm the later, and it causes me a lot of headaches with people having unrealistic goals.

    In reality, my goal is to teach people how to tune their bikes themselves. I have developed a method that is being used by a Buell tuner already, and it is very user friendly. I will make videos of how to do this, which is a method that has worked well for me with selling the dongles. When someone has a common question, I just send them the video that answers the question.

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    Senior Member lowkey's Avatar
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    Cooter, to your above response, no one "owes" me any maps... what I don't think you are grasping is that people are buying this dongle and downloading ECMDroid, either on recommendation or finding info on their own with the intent to finally be able to adjust fuel/timing for their modified bike. Most buyers are not as lucky as you to have one of the TWO available ECM's that have .xpr files to flash using that setup. Unless they can modify the EEPROM hexadecimal data (who in their right mind would go this route!?!) they can do nothing. I am just pointing this out so it becomes knowledge. Of course those dongles will work with ECMSpy mono, old free ECMSpy, and TunerProRT as well, which is going to be above most users heads IMO. I should have removed that portion of the quoted text as this threads direction was not intended for what should be provided or not... I think you can agree with me this forum is about helping each other and so those maps being offered would help sellers, buyers, and forum members.

    "Complete EEPROM data" in my wording would run about 7 pages worth and is the most we currently have access to, when you use ECMDroid and save your EEPROM .xpr that is what you would be getting. If you had just the maps (which I can extract in free ECMSpy), I would get a .msq file which would be safe to merge with the corresponding EEPROM creating a safe "hybrid". I've yet to find a way to pull only map data as .xpr and have no idea if ECMDroid would screw up the ECM if that is only what you flashed... the rest of the data needed for a working bike may be wiped!

    Lastly I thank you on the offer of fetching the BUEID but it is not needed. I have all files both race and stock for all xb9 and xb12's from 03-07 and a stock xb12 08 BUE0D EEPROM. I have all the listed software and guides except the .xpr file extractor as well.


    AZmidget, I commend your efforts and in no way was it directed at you to "need" to offer said compatible maps, only a strong encouragement for them to be available one way or another. As far as I know you don't have a website and just make/sell on word of mouth. I would very much like to hear more on the tuning method you have devised (publicly here or PM if you prefer) I can assist your efforts if needed.

    To all, with this accumulation on the inner workings of ECMDroid my hope was to get a "user guide" compiled to offer on a forum member accessible cloud storage of some sort along with compiled files/maps/software etc... so that we don't get left high and dry when developers move away from the buell community. Mike Cobb's website (xoptimized) was a wealth of info until it went down, I've lurked other buell forums that have turned to a ghost town where amazing tuning conversations have taken place, I fear soon they will be pulled from the internet in the not to distant future as well. We need to learn what we can while we can and push into the future prepared for the new guys buying buells.

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    Senior Member AZmidget91's Avatar
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    When I sell a donlge, I try to keep people informed about the downfall of ECMDroid. It is great for checking and clearing codes, simple diagnostics, and flashing the EEPROM. But making a map is not possible on it.

    I have the entire xoptiinside website backed up....

    I will eventually have a website

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    I understand this ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^.

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    Senior Member lowkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZmidget91 View Post
    I will eventually have a website
    And we wish you all he best in your endeavors! As a key member of these forums I hope the majority of sales go your way from our members here.

    One thing that came up recently by a ECMDroid user was that it lacks the option to read the CPS sensor to do static timing, that would make a nice diagnostic addition in a future update! Also would love to have the option to switch from 10bit to 8bit for the 07 and older bikes.

    Wouldn't it be nice to have a dialog going with ECMDroid creator Michel Marti! He must be a wealth of knowledge on the inner workings of the ECM.



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