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Thread: General tuning options and discussion in 2017 (ECMDRoid,ECMSpy etc...)

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Cooter View Post
    They can also make their bike inop with TunerPro and ECMSpy because they don't have the safety built in like ECMDroid does.
    Sorry, but that is not true. EcmSpy will prevent the user from flashing EEPROM data to a non-fitting ECM. As a matter of fact, ECMdroid has just inherited the algorithm from EcmSpy.
    TunerPro, indeed, is not capable to check the right ECM firmware version and will blindly copy all data from the file to the ECM.

  2. #22
    Senior Member Cooter's Avatar
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    Friday was Hectic in AZ. 108* and rushing to finish work before getting back on a plane to LAX... I'll just have to plan an extra day next time

    Thanks for the correcting my info Gunter, I am guilty of passing on heresay then. I admit I've never tried it, but just 'what I heard'...sorry

  3. #23
    Senior Member 34nineteen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowkey View Post
    EDIT: didn't see that cooter explained it but this will elaborate a bit more on the subject and make it more clear.



    less fuel under decel = higher AFR (in excess of 18.0-1) = RPM dropping MUCH harder = possible locking up rear wheel on down shift...

    My bike was just short of skidding on downshifts now it is like a slipper clutch.

    Try for yourself, add 2% fuel to the bottom 2 rows of fuel cells across all RPM. Do 40mph in 5th gear and see how slowly your bike looses speed compared to normal with no throttle input.

    I believe it is a combination of compression an no longer being a power stroke (no fuel burn to force piston down, next piston cycle same deal = stopping crank mass from rotation that much sooner).
    Interesting. Good to know.

    I'm still needing to take my Buell Tuning Internet Forums Masters certification course, so I doubt I'll be adding 2% of fuel anywhere. LOL.

  4. #24
    Senior Member lowkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZmidget91 View Post
    The reason Cobb said it was ok to use narrowband, was because he already had base tunes. Once you tune with wideband to get the base tune, you can rely on narrowband for driveability tuning.
    I think you are mistaking what I am saying regarding narrow band O2 values, I am talking about only closed loop not the whole map. Making a shift from 14.7 to a slightly richer value, up to 14.2 reliably according to Mike.

    I'm not saying it is possible one way or the another while still running a NB O2 and still enabling AFV to make adjustments, you "could" get theses values if you disable AFV/O2 correction, manipulate WB value output to ECM (in your case) to simulate NB values or run a barometric pressure sensor for correction.

    Xoptimizedrsx
    "Also Guys Dont Forget The Target Afv In The O2 Calaculations. As This Will Make Less Fuel Milage But Gain Power And Make The Engine Runn A Little Coller. But Once You Lower That Value You Will Have To Rescale The Fuel Table To Handle The New Code As The Afv Will Change. But A Nb Can Only Move So Much So Dont Get Carried Away And Try To Make It In The Afr Below 14.2 Or It Will Do Wild Things You Wont Like."

    I wanted to find the quote where he goes into adjusting these values to get the desired AFR but can't find it in the thread at this time.

    Let's say stock target AFR's are 14.7-1 closed/ 13.5-1 open/ 13.0-1 WOT, We've just shifted the closed loop to 14.2-1 now we change the value labeled open loop enrich from the stock value of 5% to 6% shifting the 13.5-1 value closer to 13.2-1, last we adjust WOT enrich from stock value of 10% to 11% changing the 13.0-1 closer to 12.7-1.

    No need to reinvent the wheel you can bet the maps were tuned with a wide band from the factory so all the data needed is already in place, then as you stated Mike has done the factory installed narrow band O2's to work off the data and sen't the bikes out the door. Both xoptimized and gemini came to this conclusion from tuning the bikes.

    EDIT: It appears Gunther feels this was done from the factory as well as the above 2 knowledgeable fellows.

    "From Fuell Fall 2007: "The left side air scoop was shaped to direct air to the rear cylinder and is very effective at doing that. During our high-speed, hotambient
    testing, the front and rear spark-plug base temperatures are virtually identical, whereas on the old tube-twin bikes there was
    a 100 Degree Fahrenheit difference (rear running hotter)."

    Regarding XB models, the rear cylinder isn't running hotter than the front one, according to the manufacturerer, and therefore doesn't need any additional cooling. On the other hand, the front one isn't running any cooler and doesn't need any enrichment because of that.

    Very probably the front cylinder had once been mapped using a O2 sensor, so the map will just reflect it's needs.

    Regards,
    Gunter
    "
    -Nice bit of info that the front/rear cylinders run at the same temps as well!

    I'm not saying it's a perfect system and if a cell is lean in the map it is always going to be leaner than target AFR because AFV is a blanket over the whole map so if it applies a value of 105% we see 5% added across every cell + 5% (total 10% in these cells) on top of that across open loop cells and finally + 5% more on WOT cells (10% enrich + 5% AFV enrich).

    Quote Originally Posted by AZmidget91 View Post
    I have tried just using narrowband for tuning in the past and just kept going around in circles with the tune.
    When you were data logging did you disable AFV/EGO correction? Using an analyzer to adjust the fuel tables based on algorithms it is imperative only the fuel table values against unadjusted 02 values are plugged in for changes. Once you get the maps values close that is as far as you can go with this method as you will see the analyzer add or subtract needed fuel in a given cell from data log to data log.

    Cole, knows most if not all of this ^^^^^^^ but for those following along learning...

    http://www.buelletinboard.com/forums/showthread.php?5176-ecmspy-2-q-a/page1
    Here is one of the may tuning discussions from the past, this one is over 150 pages of knowledge!
    Last edited by lowkey; 05-09-2017 at 11:41 PM. Reason: more info

  5. #25
    Senior Member lancruza's Avatar
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    Where's the popcorn???? Good timing on this thread for me. I'm a total noob when it comes to changing or reprogramming the ecm on the bike. I'm getting ready to DIY a Magnaflow pipe, like Dean used to do, and I'm gonna need to learn how to change my map. Let the learning begin.........

  6. #26
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    How can you tell for sure which ECM Type you have? Is it printed on the ECM itself? I have a 2007 XB12 which should be a BUEIB ECM but when I fetch the EEPROM it's a
    BUEGB which is for a 2004. Is it possible to install BUEGB software on a BUEIB ECM? The bike has a Jardine pipe and K&N filter so I'm thinking the PO might have put the wrong software on it.

  7. #27
    Senior Member lowkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mosquito View Post
    How can you tell for sure which ECM Type you have? Is it printed on the ECM itself? I have a 2007 XB12 which should be a BUEIB ECM but when I fetch the EEPROM it's a
    BUEGB which is for a 2004. Is it possible to install BUEGB software on a BUEIB ECM? The bike has a Jardine pipe and K&N filter so I'm thinking the PO might have put the wrong software on it.
    Most likely the ECM is a 2004 that was put into the bike. All the sensors are the same so that is why it works fine. BUEGB is just the firmware version which can't be changed, you will want to extract the maps from a 2007 race map and flash them onto your BUEGB EEPROM.

  8. #28
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    So, are you saying that I can install the EEPROM from a 2007 (BUEIB) onto my BUEGB ECM? Or are you saying to just copy the maps (fuel map and timing map) from a 2007 race map?

  9. #29
    Senior Member AZmidget91's Avatar
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    Ugh... BUEGB is a race ecm

    You can not put a BUEIB eeprom on a BUEGB. You can copy and paste the maps though. I don't suggest loading the different types map into your though.

  10. #30
    Senior Member lowkey's Avatar
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    Fuel and timing values only! Leave all other data alone unless you know what you are changing. This step can be done by 1.) copy and paste 2.)manually inputting the values through ECMSpy or TunerProRT or flashing an .msq over EEPROM.txt in those programs. Supposedly you can make a .xpr of "only" the maps and flash through ECMDroid but so far I am only able to make full EEPROM data .xpr files so that won't work yet. If you had a BUEIB ECM I have the .xpr that can be flashed with ECMDroid. The reason you can't cross ECM firmware types like say BUEIB EEPROM.txt or EERPOM.xpr over your BUEGB ECM is because the data we can't access will always be BUEGB and the file we would flash in this example would be BUEIB, there is a checksum if you will, since they are not the same it won't work. Now if you take just the fuel and timing from any year up to 2007 data, you can apply them without disrupting this checksum and the file will still read BUEGB and all will be well inside the ECM.

    Hope that explains it better.


    Last edited by lowkey; 05-13-2017 at 06:47 PM.

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