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Thread: '09 XB12scg has trouble idling, CEL codes

  1. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Cooter View Post
    Using the program ECMDroid and the Bluetooth dongle you got from Buelltooth go to "live data" and select those items.

    The specific readings can still be found in the free .pdf manual download from Buellmods.com or Buelltooth.com (where you bought the dongle).
    I spent a lot of time reading up on those specific things tonight. I think I'm going to put some effort into reading outputs of the sensors when I get the BUELLtooth.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cooter View Post
    I hate throwing money at a guess, especially because you are diagnosing this properly (my kudos to you sir) BUT all three sensors are cheap and easy to replace.
    I purchased a few things:



    • New Bosch aftermarket oxygen sensor
    • New OEM intake air temperature sensor
    • New OEM idle air controller actuator

    • New BUELLtooth

    • New BUELLtooth quick shift assembly (purely for fun, and also because I rode a BMW S1000R and the QS was the absolute best part of that bike)

    • Anti-seize lubricant for the O2 sensor

    • Amazon Fire Tablet (because it runs Android and ECMDroid is pretty great)

    I'm going to replace the sensors and actuator, clear the CEL codes, check the outputs of the sensors, and hopefully it's good to go.

    Would an appropriate methodology to test the O2 sensor be to check the AFV output, modify the desired AFV, and then check the new O2 sensor output?

    I think I'm also going to re-flash the newest version of the stock '09 tune onto the ECM. Only because I really have no way of knowing what the first owner did to it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cooter View Post
    The O2 sensors like to get lazy and be a PITA before they fail.
    So I see. Is there a good way to change the O2 sensor that I can do without either rotating the engine or removing the rear shock? I don't have the ability to lift the bike in any other way than spools on the rear axle.
    Last edited by gdisaac07; 10-16-2017 at 02:56 AM.

  2. #12
    Senior Member Cooter's Avatar
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    You're on the right track for sure (and x1000% on the S1000R) testing the O2 is as simple as watching (or datalogging) the output voltage to know if it's giving the ECM the right signal for closed loop operation. ECMDroid is a powerful and easy tool to use for diagnosis.

    Your AFV should stay at or near 100. If it's changing drastically, you have a problem. AFV is a global map change, I think it's a rudimentary ham-handed way to do it, but thats that cards were were dealt with both DDFI-2 ('03-'07) and DDFI-3 ('08-'10).

    I would shy away from changing any mapping yet. First fix the bike, then modify the bike. You're looking for trouble otherwise. I'm not aware of any "newer, stock tune", but I would recommend the 'race tune' (even the one for a stock muffler). It is a big increase in rideability and power, but resist and only do it after you get your bike sorted.






    IMO
    Last edited by Cooter; 10-16-2017 at 03:07 AM.

  3. #13
    Senior Member Cooter's Avatar
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    Just pull the rear shock. All you need is a bike tie down strap and an A-frame ladder (or rafters in the garage). Hang the bike by the seat rails to let the rear wheel get just off the ground.
    Pull the shock, the fan, and use a 7/8" crowsfoot on a 6" wobbly extension. You'll be done before your PBR gets warm.

  4. #14
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    Removing the rear shock is much easier than rotating the engine. Excellent thread, motivation to get an ecm spy cable or dongle.

  5. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Cooter View Post
    You're on the right track for sure testing the O2 is as simple as watching (or datalogging) the output voltage to know if it's giving the ECM the right signal for closed loop operation. ECMDroid is a powerful and easy tool to use for diagnosis.
    Awesome. Glad my approach has merit!

    Quote Originally Posted by Cooter View Post

    (and x1000% on the S1000R)
    Honestly, I wasn't a fan of the S1000R as a whole. The I4 just doesn't do it for me. It doesn't have that lovable grunt that the twins have. I also rode a Monster 1200 S (which is kind of a spiritual successor to the XB's IMO) and a 2017 KTM Super Duke R, which I am completely and wholeheartedly in love with the engine of, but don't like how tall it is.


    Quote Originally Posted by Cooter View Post
    Your AFV should stay at or near 100. If it's changing drastically, you have a problem. AFV is a global map change, I think it's a rudimentary ham-handed way to do it, but thats that cards were were dealt with both DDFI-2 ('03-'07) and DDFI-3 ('08-'10).
    I agree. I read a lot on the mapping last night. I think I'm just going to record the initial intended, change it, see the output change, and then change back to the original values.


    Quote Originally Posted by Cooter View Post
    I would shy away from changing any mapping yet. First fix the bike, then modify the bike. You're looking for trouble otherwise. I'm not aware of any "newer, stock tune", but I would recommend the 'race tune' (even the one for a stock muffler). It is a big increase in rideability and power, but resist and only do it after you get your bike sorted.
    I am not sure what stock tunes are out there. The reasons that I was going to reflash the stock tune onto the bike are:

    • I don't know if the previous owner modified the tune
    • I don't know how the bike's "learn" feature will react to the new sensors

    Quote Originally Posted by Cooter View Post
    Just pull the rear shock. All you need is a bike tie down strap and an A-frame ladder (or rafters in the garage). Hang the bike by the seat rails to let the rear wheel get just off the ground.
    Pull the shock, the fan, and use a 7/8" crowsfoot on a 6" wobbly extension. You'll be done before your PBR gets warm.
    I don't have any of those things. I'm doing all this work in the parking lot of my apartment complex. I dropped it off today with a shop in my area with a guy I trust. He used to work on Buells when he was at Harley and now just does custom jobs. He's only replacing the O2 sensor.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tbone View Post
    Removing the rear shock is much easier than rotating the engine. Excellent thread, motivation to get an ecm spy cable or dongle.
    I told him as much and he's going to do it that way. I'm glad this is getting more people on the ECMDroid/BUELLtooth train.

  6. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by AZmidget91 View Post
    Intake seals are leaking. What is the AFV?
    I finally got to use my BUELLtooth. I found that my AFV is 143 on the rear cylinder. I set it to 104, just as an experiment, and the bike would fire one cycle and then die. Four revolutions and then it dies. I set it to 143 again and it runs enough for me to ride it. Where do I go with this? Should I just replace the intake seals anyways? Will it change dramatically when I finally have the O2 sensor replaced with a new one?

    I took the bike back from the shop because they hadn't started working on it yet and I found a spot I could suspend it. I successfully pulled the shock and was able to pull 3 of the 4 bolts anchoring the fan to the bike. However, the fourth one, found on the bottom, will not move. I stripped the head, then Dremel'd a flathead pattern on it, and I still couldn't remove it with the flathead. I still need to change the O2 sensor, so I'm going to try again tomorrow with a screw tap. I'll have to get a new screw to replace the old one.

    Finally, the bike is telling me that my exhaust valve is stuck open. How do I fix that?
    Last edited by gdisaac07; 10-19-2017 at 12:37 AM.

  7. #17
    Senior Member Cooter's Avatar
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    Does it have stock exhaust with the valve functional, or something else?

  8. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Cooter View Post
    Does it have stock exhaust with the valve functional, or something else?
    Yes. Completely stock.

  9. #19
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    Adjust exhaust valve according service manual. While adjusting make sure the valve moves when you pull and release the cable.

    If you feel you can strip bolt head do not fight it, just spray liquid wrench on it and let it sit for a day , then unscrew it.

    Also spray liquid wrench on O2 sensor and let it sit for a day before unscrewing it. Make sure you have O2 sensor wrench adapter to unscrew it. Google how to remove O2 sensor on Buell to be familiar with process and to not brake anything else.
    Last edited by TPEHAK; 10-19-2017 at 05:33 AM.

  10. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by TPEHAK View Post
    Adjust exhaust valve according service manual. While adjusting make sure the valve moves when you pull and release the cable.
    I will do this!

    Update on the bike:

    1. I replaced the IAC actuator and IAT sensor. Neither made any difference.
    2. I spent some time replacing the O2 sensor. However, I discovered that the old O2 sensor wasn't bad. The new O2 sensor is providing the same "Always Lean" CEL code that the old one is. Furthermore, even after re-burning a stock BUE2D map onto the bike, the issue persisted. This leads me to fueling.

    It is obvious that the bike is getting the right amount of air, but insufficient amounts of fuel. AFV is at 143 or higher. Idle will still not happen. My next course of action is the following:

    1. Remove fuel pump assembly and replace fuel pump, fuel pressure regulator, fuel filter, and fuel strainer
    2. Replace injectors
    3. Replace intake seals
    4. Replace ignition coil
    5. Replace spark plug wires

    The things I've done to test these three issues:

    1. For the fuel pump, I used ECMDroid and the BUELLtooth to test the fuel pump. It's giving the typical whine, but it's a cheap part and if I'm going to spend a couple hours disassembling the fuel pump assembly/removing the swingarm, I'm just going to put a new pump in. I'm also going to check grounding of the pump. The bike is 9 years old with only 2,700 miles on it, so I assume the fuel filter is garbage because of old fuel sitting.
    2. The injectors click evenly front and back when I test them using ECMDroid and the BUELLtooth. If the new fuel pump/filter/strainer assembly does not work, then this will be my next task to change. I've put StarTron in the fuel to clean the injectors, but it is possible that they are just bad for some reason.
    3. The intake seals seem to be a problem, regardless of how many miles are on the bike. When I did the intake seal test, I noticed no problems. But if I'm going to disassemble the top part of the bike to replace the injectors, it's not that much more difficult to replace the intake seals.


    Parts that I ordered:


    I haven't ordered new injectors.

    I guess this is now my winter project. I'm sad that I haven't been able to get this thing working this season. I just want the baby to run!


    Last edited by gdisaac07; 10-23-2017 at 07:29 PM.

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