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Thread: AFV at 128% & engine cuts

  1. #11
    Senior Member lowkey's Avatar
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    1.) So you will unfortunately have to replace the intake seals from that description but its not that terrible of a job.

    "Revs slow to fall“ meaning noticeable from when it was running property if ever? Sticking on the way down?

    2.) Okay good!

  2. #12
    Member herwawan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowkey View Post
    1.) So you will unfortunately have to replace the intake seals from that description but its not that terrible of a job.

    "Revs slow to fall“ meaning noticeable from when it was running property if ever? Sticking on the way down?

    2.) Okay good!
    Ok! I’ve already ordered the new intake flange and rings from Twin Motorcycles. After 25 000 miles, I guess it’s expected.

    Before the tps, it was sometimes idling a bit low I realize now - and in that regard it runs better now. But apart from the first start after the AFV set to 100 which created an unstable and low rev, the idle is now pretty stable.

    EDIT: I would say the only thing I pay attention to when slowing down is the more intense vibration that occurs while going from around 1.5 to 1k rpm. But I have literally no comparison possible!

    Thanks again for the help and let me know what you think about the log!
    Last edited by herwawan; 04-01-2018 at 01:41 AM. Reason: Added information

  3. #13
    Senior Member lowkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by herwawan View Post
    I'm guessing this .bin is a log file (I opened in TunerProRT but this .bin supplied does not load as the proper EEPROM file)? If you are using ECMDroid I will need your .xpr file not the .bin, if TunerProRT I can use the .bin (it is a proper EEPROM file in .bin form), or if ECMSpy I can use .txt or .msq file.

  4. #14
    Member herwawan's Avatar
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    Oh yeah, sorry I only put the log, with the two files created by ECMDroid.

    You can find my EEPROM file right there: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1WvC...ew?usp=sharing

    Please note the only change I ever did on it was to burn the new AFV value to 100.
    Last edited by herwawan; 04-01-2018 at 06:39 AM.

  5. #15
    Senior Member lowkey's Avatar
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    Alright Max, looking through your logs right now here is some things I see.

    1.) someone has had a go at changing the fuel maps both front and rear already from the stock values. Even compared to the Race values most of it has changed even richer already.

    2.) RPM highest in the log was 5,107RPM, your temps in the logs look okay so not limited by high temperature cap.

    3.) Highest throttle position in the log was only 50.1 degrees out of the 85.0 (which is WOT), does that sound right from when you rode during the log?

    4.) I had a look at your EEPROM settings, all appears okay to take advantage of the ECM's adjustment ability. No sensors jump out in the log as reading off from what they should from what I can tell. Your EGO corrections hover at 116 for most of the log (max was 142) which in turn brought your AFV up. This indicates 16% fuel being added in real time to each cell for the EGO within the closed loop area of the map, in turn AFV is adding 16% to all cells in the open loop area where the 02 sensor feedback (EGO) is not adjusting in real time for corrections.

    You've ordered the intake seals and this would be what I would do first after looking at the data from the log. Once you get them in you will once again reset TPS and AFV, ride and report back.
    You can also look at it this way Your TPS is slightly lower as compared to a good running same engine. Your throttle blade is closed more than it should and yet your RPM is equal to the example good running engine, this shows extra air coming into the engine (intake leak) not through the throttle body blades setting. Also have a look at the throttle body for a vacuum nipple that may not be capped off OR the cap leaking OR leading to emissions canister, you can see an example here.https://goo.gl/images/NVLT8W
    This could also account for the unmetered air instead of the intake seals (or both).

    One more time just to ease your mind you will never have the deceleration "popping" go away unless you have the maps tuned in the decel region or simply check that box I explained earlier which removes fueling under this condition.

  6. #16
    Senior Member lowkey's Avatar
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    Get yourself something like this endoscope https://www.amazon.com/Depstech-Semi...+snake+android and you can examine your intake seals through the throttle body with the grip locked at WOT. I use this when I install new seals to make sure they are properly seated and centered before and after tightening up the throttle body to the heads. You will want to look for wavy/missing portions of the seal or they could be pinched/off center causing an eventual leak.

  7. #17
    Senior Member lowkey's Avatar
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    Log inspection.jpg

    Alright Max, here is a zoomed in portion of your log showing your idle sticking around 1200RPM's. The 2 white circles have the sensor data in their color in top right circle with value at the time stamp in the other circle. The 2 yellow circles show your TPS values which is 4.6-4.8. Going from these two data points in relation to the maps on the right side of the picture your idle area is the red circle and you should be (and have adjusted earlier in the log showing to be true) the blue circle values. This is rev hang, your idle sticks at 1200RPM but you have infact adjusted to 1050ish I've seen in the log. Since your TPS value is set correctly to the maps on the right (14 value putting you in between the 10-15 rows on the maps) this points to intake leak somewhere past the throttle body blade (seals or that nipple I linked to) IMO.

  8. #18
    Senior Member lowkey's Avatar
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    Also I'm still at a loss finding the RPM cap you spoke of (somewhere in the 4k range correct?), from the log everything looks to be working as it should. TPS went up, RPM's went up, TPS drops abruptly, RPM's drop abruptly. Can you do another log and keep the throttle pinned when you experience the RPM cap for at least some length of time so I can monitor the instance and data? You have used ECMDroid to look for "trouble codes"? Are there any? Your dash does not display the engine light at any time? Both constant, flashing, or briefly?

  9. #19
    Member herwawan's Avatar
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    Oh god. I am in love with this software, pure eyegasm! I just tried to get the software - not sure the difference between the MS and the HD though. Which one are you using? It is so useful, I would have never been able to identify by myself this rev hang you were talking about! Incredible.

    Regarding all the very precious information you pulled out of my log and feedback (seriously amazing job, thank you very much!)

    1) Okay, it's good to know. I am curious about the motive behind it, and it has to be pretty old (prior to 2013) because the previous owner told me he never touched it. At at the time, I believe the bike was "stock" (exhaust and air filter). I did not notice any other mod on the bike. Really curious.

    2) Good - yes 5k really was the maximum I could get to, in the middle of cuts

    3) Yes, it sounds about right. I have never completely opened the throttle yet - I rarely do with bikes I do not feel 100% safe.

    4) I'm glad things are working the way they're supposed to!

    I guess all make sense now with the current information, leading to the diagnostic of the intake leak (and the open question of the vacuum nipple). Once the intake flange and rings will be replaced, along with the vacuum nipple checked, I'll proceed with the TPS & AFV reset as mentioned and will report all results again.

    Quote Originally Posted by lowkey View Post
    Also I'm still at a loss finding the RPM cap you spoke of (somewhere in the 4k range correct?), from the log everything looks to be working as it should. TPS went up, RPM's went up, TPS drops abruptly, RPM's drop abruptly. Can you do another log and keep the throttle pinned when you experience the RPM cap for at least some length of time so I can monitor the instance and data? You have used ECMDroid to look for "trouble codes"? Are there any? Your dash does not display the engine light at any time? Both constant, flashing, or briefly?
    Yes, it is around 4k. I wish I could do a video but all my GoPro equipment is stuck back in Europe... To describe it as much as I can:

    As I get over 4k, I'll have different cuts of different intensity back to back:

    Acceleration-cut-POP-acceleration-cut-cut-accelration-cut, and so on

    Basically I just cannot "hold" the throttle because the bike literally stop to accelerate properly and the phases where it keeps accelerating between the cuts make the bike doing some weird back and forth and it doesn't feel safe at all - plus I've got sometimes some intense backfires, described as "POP" above.

    There are no trouble codes, neither engine lights. It's all good - which is a bit surprising by the way because the exhaust actuator is still in place while being disconnected (logic with the Jardine), it's tied to nothing but no code is displayed. I've read in different topics here that people usually get the engine light in this case and they need to deactivated the actuator in ECMDroid - although it is not deactivated in mine.

    On the log you have (I only see it in Excel) check the lines :

    number 685 / time 488.66
    number 751 / time 585.52

    These two I remember where I was and I remember the cuts (the first one being the one with the massive backfire). I'll do another log for you and see if we can identify the wrong parameters!
    Last edited by herwawan; 04-01-2018 at 08:02 PM.

  10. #20
    Senior Member lowkey's Avatar
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    Yes I noticed you still had the exhaust valve actuated, and was going to ask if you wanted to turn it "off". If you turn it off with software you can remove the servo/cable/wiring without issue, right now you aren't getting a code because the ECM thinks it is controlling something at the end of the cable that isn't connected any longer. I will also look through the log at those time stamps you just mentioned you saw in Excel and report back if I see anything (maybe a fueling issue?).

    Do not risk an accident on account of the log, do what you can safely, I'm sure it will be figured out. No idea on the ECM maps being tampered with huh? You put the exhaust/air filter, not the previous owner?



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