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Thread: ZTL2 worth it over ZTL1 ?

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cooter View Post
    A brake caliper has zero to do with a rotor warping. Heat is the issue. Friction=heat. If you are continually warping stock brake rotors, you need an upgrade. The upgrade would be an EBR race rotor and solid mounting hardware, a ZTL-2 caliper, a 19mm radial master cylinder, and (IMO) EBC HH pads for the street. Heck, get a TPEHAK brake scoop if you want

    Possibly his Royal Highness Valentino Rossi could tell the difference in weight between the 2 calipers, but any of us mere mortals could never tell. Ever. 'Why is my bike handling differently? Oh ya, I put my wallet in my pocket' Haha.

    Assuming the rotor is warped is a common mistake. What is is actually doing is sticking-sliding-sticking-sliding to the pads and you need to find out why. Stuck mounting hardware or uneven pad deposits will feel exactly the same. Replacing the rotor usually solves all 3 issues, reinforcing the original incorrect assumption. But you'll want to know if you have an actual overheating/ warping issue that needs to be solved.



    Remove and properly clean the rotor (clean wire, not grit) and all the hardware, lubricate the hardware with anti-seize. Then properly re-bed the brakes. While the rotor is off, check it for flatness on glass or I use a cheap wheel balance stand to check run-out.

    https://www.buellxb.com/forum/showth...l-instructions


    Unless the pistons are sticking causing drag... and we all know what that caliper likes to do when it gets warmer. FWIW, all of my Buell’s have had sticky pistons, and a disassembly and cleaning has worked wonders.

  2. #42
    Senior Member Cooter's Avatar
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    I agree with you 34:19 but I believe his question was if a different caliper would change his brakes overheating. A rotor sure would, but not a caliper, as long as it's functioning properly.

    Have you really had that many problems with Buell calipers sticking? That sucks man, I hadn't heard that was an issue. But it is a largely ignored item Considering it's importance you'd think more people would take better care of them. MUFFLER! YES! Brake upgrade? Meh...

  3. #43
    Senior Member Silverrider's Avatar
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    Is your mc working properly releasing the pressure ? Wrong lever ?

  4. #44
    Hello ! What you're saying is very interesting cooter !

    Quote Originally Posted by Cooter View Post
    A brake caliper has zero to do with a rotor warping. Heat is the issue. Friction=heat.
    What about if the calipers don't have the same friction surface area ? Just like ZTL1 & 2 ? If I recall correctly, ZTL2 has about 25% more friction surface area.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cooter View Post
    If you are continually warping stock brake rotors, you need an upgrade. The upgrade would be an EBR race rotor and solid mounting hardware, a ZTL-2 caliper, a 19mm radial master cylinder, and (IMO) EBC HH pads for the street. Heck, get a TPEHAK brake scoop if you want
    I have many questions on that !
    Is the 5mm EBR race rotor less likely to warped compared to the regular Buell rotor ? What about the solid mounting ? Is the rotor less likely to warp if you have the solid mounting hardware ? I actually that the floating would be better as the rotor can "move". Last question : Do you know what kind of pads you get when you buy a new ZTL2 caliper ?


    Quote Originally Posted by Cooter View Post
    Assuming the rotor is warped is a common mistake. What is is actually doing is sticking-sliding-sticking-sliding to the pads and you need to find out why. Stuck mounting hardware or uneven pad deposits will feel exactly the same. Replacing the rotor usually solves all 3 issues, reinforcing the original incorrect assumption. But you'll want to know if you have an actual overheating/ warping issue that needs to be solved.
    +986. I had the issue. I thought my rotor was wrapped. But it was actualling the mounting hardware that was rusty. So my rotor was not floating anymore...
    Last edited by Niklos; 02-12-2019 at 09:41 AM.

  5. #45
    Senior Member Cooter's Avatar
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    More friction surface area means you're stopping 25% faster at the same pressure or the same distance at 25% less effort... whatever. It is still the same weight, speed, distance equation so more friction [area] requires less effort 'equal heat input'. This is super-generalizing of course and we could argue tenth of percent points all day, but the basic equation is brakes work by friction. Friction=heat. It's not the calipers adding heat that's the issue*. It is the rotors ability to shed that heat.

    The EBR "race rotor" has been designed to shed heat better. If you are racing track days hard enough to warp a stock rotor, get a race rotor. Thats what is was designed to do.

    I believe the solid mounting "race" hardware was designed to increase the contact with the wheel rim, allowing a better heat-sink and thus keeping the rotor cooler.

    I also believe the stock floating rotor arrangement was originally designed to stop any piston knock-back issues if a wheel isn't running perfectly true. I haven't had any issued with using the EBR hardware kit.

    * a ZTL-2 caliper also has the advantage of being just bigger. Bigger= more metal= better heat sink. Theres a discussion of fast track/ slow track for a balanced system, but a street driven Buell on street pads will love a bigger, better caliper with a matched master cylinder.

  6. #46
    Senior Member Cooter's Avatar
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    I don't know what EBR supplies as a OEM brake pad, but you could call them and ask? I'm curious, maybe Lunatic knows?

  7. #47
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    https://www.oemcycle.com/Item/product/900091719

    Braking's original outer profile design – floating and constructed of only the highest quality stainless steel, capable of expanding and contracting under hot temperatures, without warping
    320mm outer diameter – perfect for off-road to supermoto conversion; must use 320mm Caliper Bracket
    Alloy center for less weight, helps get the bike in and out of turning angles quicker
    Provides much stronger braking power, but with improved feeling – leading to increased overall performance and handling of the bike
    A great combination of improved performance and appeal

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=bFD3H5wGP-c
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=i8VGS4T-_E0

  8. #48
    Senior Member Cooter's Avatar
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    Thats funny you posted that SR, I am a big fan of Galfer stuff in the dirt. The company has been around awhile and in racing so I'm sure their Buell rotors are nice. I am also curious about the Buell specific brake pads they make? I'm pretty happy with EBC HH pads though. Maybe I'll experiment when it's time for new ones

    The BraKing description isn't for a Buell non-floating, non-alloy center rotor. Wrong size too. Probably a copy/paste description for all their rotors? I like the look of their stuff but I honestly don't know much about the company. Thats what you just got right? How do you like it?
    Last edited by Cooter; 02-13-2019 at 05:32 PM.

  9. #49
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    I like it !!!! Still doing a little bedding had it up to 120 mph feels good.
    IMG_0106.jpg

  10. #50
    Thanks for your detailed answer Cooter !



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