MLV question

[Cooter]

I beg to differ SR. I learn a lot everyday because I'm not afraid of being wrong




I never learned anything by being right

[Silverrider]

Cooter Beg all you want , I have never seen you asking for help, only answering and showing, with the upmost respect for all.

[Cooter]

OP, I'm glad ReadyXB was able to answer your question in the specific way you wanted. I didn't realize that until post #25.

I didn't realize it because it's completely unnecessary to use that knowledge unless you are physically calculating each data point from your datalog But you are in luck! The process of tuning has been greatly automated so breaking out the slide rule won't be necessary

VE analyze in MLV does that for you by using a pretty straightforward algorithm to compute current fuel load mapping against O2 sensor output to get the engines output to whatever your target is. Stoic for CL and 13:1 (starting point) for OL is typical with gasoline.

Knowing stoic for E85 is already 10:1 I'd guess your OL target at 7:1. An easy Google search should answer that for you when you get to that point.

I guessed right!
Air/Fuel (A/F) Ratios of Common Fuels

Fuel A/F Lambda (λ)
Pure Gasoline Stoichiometric 14.7 1.000
Pure Gasoline Max Power Rich 12.5 0.8503
Pure Gasoline Max Power Lean 13.23 0.900
E10 Stoichiometric 14.08 1.000
E10 Max Power Rich 12.0 0.8523
E10 Max Power Lean 12.7008 0.9020
E15 Stoichiometric 13.79 1.000
E15 Max Power Rich 11.75 0.8521
E15 Max Power Lean 12.4362 0.9018
E85 Stoichiometric 9.765 1.000
E85 Max Power Rich 6.975 0.7143
E85 Max Power Lean 8.469 0.8673
Ethanol Stoichiometric 9.0078 1.000
Ethanol Max Power Rich 6.429 0.7137
Ethanol Max Power Lean 7.8 0.8659
Methanol Stoichiometric 6.45 1.000
Methanol Max Power Rich 4.0 0.620
Propane Stoichiometric 15.7 1.000
Propane Max Power Rich 13.18 0.8395

https://www.hotrod.com/articles/wideband-oxygen-sensor/

SR: I learned all I know from T-BAG hahahaha

[cossack84]

OP, I'm glad ReadyXB was able to answer your question in the specific way you wanted. I didn't realize that until post #25.

I didn't realize it because it's completely unnecessary to use that knowledge unless you are physically calculating each data point from your datalog But you are in luck! The process of tuning has been greatly automated so breaking out the slide rule won't be necessary

VE analyze in MLV does that for you by using a pretty straightforward algorithm to compute current fuel load mapping against O2 sensor output to get the engines output to whatever your target is. Stoic for CL and 13:1 (starting point) for OL is typical with gasoline.

Knowing stoic for E85 is already 10:1 I'd guess your OL target at 7:1. An easy Google search should answer that for you when you get to that point.

I guessed right!
Air/Fuel (A/F) Ratios of Common Fuels

Fuel A/F Lambda (λ)
Pure Gasoline Stoichiometric 14.7 1.000
Pure Gasoline Max Power Rich 12.5 0.8503
Pure Gasoline Max Power Lean 13.23 0.900
E10 Stoichiometric 14.08 1.000
E10 Max Power Rich 12.0 0.8523
E10 Max Power Lean 12.7008 0.9020
E15 Stoichiometric 13.79 1.000
E15 Max Power Rich 11.75 0.8521
E15 Max Power Lean 12.4362 0.9018
E85 Stoichiometric 9.765 1.000
E85 Max Power Rich 6.975 0.7143
E85 Max Power Lean 8.469 0.8673
Ethanol Stoichiometric 9.0078 1.000
Ethanol Max Power Rich 6.429 0.7137
Ethanol Max Power Lean 7.8 0.8659
Methanol Stoichiometric 6.45 1.000
Methanol Max Power Rich 4.0 0.620
Propane Stoichiometric 15.7 1.000
Propane Max Power Rich 13.18 0.8395

https://www.hotrod.com/articles/wideband-oxygen-sensor/

SR: I learned all I know from T-BAG hahahaha

I thought it was pretty straight forward question, what PW is measured in? "milliseconds", answered my original question, thank you again, ReadyXB.

It might not be that important at the moment, when all the components are stock. However if one was to change injector size or increase fuel pressure, knowing how fuel is delivered by ecm is pretty important. One way to monitor it, is by watching PW in data log.
Again if I ever decide to change things this information is needed. I don't understand how you can begin to calculate what the initial change to the map should be once hardware has been changed with out know how long the injector is staying open.

Thanks for the AFR table, I'm no where near to even considering a switch to a different fuel. Just here to gather information. I'm completely fine not talking about E85 in this thread lol. Seems like it got us off topic.
But I would not mind a discussion about potential benefit of running E85 in modified buell, perhaps in a new thread.

[user_deleted]

Stoich Lambda parameters irrelevant jibberish unless data-logging in 24hz gig binary platform.
Children at play with minimal knowledge who should relegate themselves to serving Santa milk and cookies.

ich

[cossack84]

Stoich Lambda parameters irrelevant jibberish unless data-logging in 24hz gig binary platform.
Children at play with minimal knowledge who should relegate themselves to serving Santa milk and cookies.

ich

.................................................. ....


Edit: Well....got me hook line and sinker!

[wickedchop]

^^^^^^ Its an effing joke man. Basically what John is saying is that these are century plus year old motors. They are not current moto gp machines. Basically he (John) and myself amongst countless others see no need to bother with these bikes. There isn't 85 HP hiding in the ecm, there is no need to tig weld 900 extra o2 bungs on the header! Do what ya wanna do man its your bike. I would rather ride mine and accept it for what it is......an air cooled sledge hammer! I don't even bother with my race bikes ecm.

[Silverrider]

Stoich Lambda parameters irrelevant jibberish unless data-logging in 24hz gig binary platform.
Children at play with minimal knowledge who should relegate themselves to serving Santa milk and cookies.

ich

Sarcasm ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ At its highest effective level.

[cossack84]

Sarcasm ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ At its highest effective level.

Yep got my dumb ass.

[cossack84]

^^^^^^ Its an effing joke man. Basically what John is saying is that these are century plus year old motors. They are not current moto gp machines. Basically he (John) and myself amongst countless others see no need to bother with these bikes. There isn't 85 HP hiding in the ecm, there is no need to tig weld 900 extra o2 bungs on the header! Do what ya wanna do man its your bike. I would rather ride mine and accept it for what it is......an air cooled sledge hammer! I don't even bother with my race bikes ecm.

Yep completely went over my dumb head!

I'm not trying to get more power out of this old outdated bike. I'm simply trying to get more familiar with it. This thing is 15 years old and runs on crap that I don't understand. In order for me to keep this bike running in good enough shape I have to be able to troubleshoot it effectively. Again I'm not trying to or have any plans to modify this old bike. I'm trying to understand how this old crap works.