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Thread: Any last ideas before I dive into the world of custom tunes?

  1. #51
    Senior Member Cooter's Avatar
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    Thats a pretty minuscule sweep of adjustment.
    If you are looking for the corrections to stay at 100 exactly, I think you misunderstand their purpose.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by yugo42 View Post
    Thanks for the visuals! Does your AFV/EGO value of 115 at cruise concern you? That seems like it must need to add a lot of fuel consistently.

    I finally logged a couple more rides - one with corrections turned off, and one with them on so I could see how the system was correcting. The riding felt a little smoother running open loop, but the data consistently showed idle being lean and cruising being rich. Since I'm just using a narrowband, it was hard to tell how much. Turning everything back to default EGO/AFV settings showed that most often the EGO correction was taking away fuel at cruising (89-95) and adding fuel at idle (105 or so). There were areas in the data with exceptions though. I didn't have enough rides in to establish AFV but previous times I checked it with ECMDroid it always hovered around 105. The first ride was at about 70 degrees F, the second about 77.

    I'm guessing this means my base fuel map needs work, but I also wonder if it is worth replacing the o2 sensor just to eliminate a possible issue there. It seems to be behaving normally, bouncing rich to lean with corrections in place and outputting expected voltages.
    I have intake leak that drives my AFV that high. Not worried about it at the moment.

    I doubt there is anything wrong with your base map. If you change base map, O2 will compensate for it with AFV and you will be right back at square one. If you are dead set on adjusting AFR in closed loop you would have to change the set point for O2 target voltage and O2 low/high voltage. But I would think very hard about why you want those changed. I don't think what you have described above, is the reason for choppy low load that you have.
    What does you load data looks like when you apply small amount of throttle? Would be nice to see a screen grab.

  3. #53
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    Cooter - I understand how the EGO correction works and I don't expect it to be at 100 all the time. The ECMSpy Tuning Guide Version 2 states that the further your fueling is from stoich based on fuel maps, IAT correction, and engine temp correction, the less smooth it will be. I guess -12% isn't that far off but I have no smooth DDFI2 Buells to compare to. Having the bike cruise more smoothly in open-loop mode is just strange to me and I'm grasping for ideas at this point.

    Cossack84 - I attached two screen shots - one from my open loop ride and one from closed loop riding. I did notice as I was taking these that the pulse width 1 (front?) was longer on the closed-loop ride (outside of a couple random high spikes where PW2 shot up for 1 datapoint) and pulse width 2 was longer on the open loop ride. My engine was fully warm so engine temp correction should be 100 for both cylinders I would think.

    I know these are only snapshots, but does anything jump out at you guys?

    Open Loop:
    cruise_open_loop_061119.jpg

    Closed Loop:
    cruise_EGOcorr_on_061219.jpg

  4. #54
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    yugo you care to send me those logs, I can't really see anything in those pictures, they are kinda small.

  5. #55
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    Sorry, I tried to embed the PNG images so I could label them but it automatically reduces them to small JPGs I guess. I will definitely send the logs when I get home. I really appreciate your input on this!

  6. #56
    Senior Member lowkey's Avatar
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    Yugo42, your screen shots don't even show the .msq file was loaded... pull the file with ECMSpy from the EEPROM that was run when you were logging. Load the rear fuel map into the top right, load the AFR map on the bottom right. ONLY run analysis on open loop log, delete the other CL log as it is no help. If only running a rear NB 02 sensor ONLY run analysis for rear cylinder fueling map with NB 02 enabled (TPS setup to LOAD). After analysis on the rear you will have to open tuning software of your choice and change each front cylinder fuel cell an equal % that analysis applied to the rear map (you can save the .msq and load it for the rear fuel map to save time). You will do this entire process over and over until corrections from analysis are within + or - 2-4%.

    As for jumpy throttle response, ECMDroid live monitor would work best but you can put tape on your grip and mark TPS values against a tape mark on the grip control and look what TPS/RPM value it is occurring. Check the timing map as most likely there is a jump in advice timing. Or you can add resolution to the maps by scaling rows and columns into that area of the map.

    Have you read up on using MLV with NB 02 on a DDFI2 bike?

  7. #57
    Senior Member lowkey's Avatar
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    So I quickly looked back on the first page, you have an 04 XB12 correct? So you have the 0-RPM and 8000-RPM column that are not being utilized on stock mapping. Whatever your TPS value is at the throttle stop is what you can set the bottom TPS row to. Use best judgment if shifting TPS Rows around (I'd leave OL switch point value and WOT switch point alone and focus on the CL TPS rows).

    For setting fueling at idle all you have to do is enable CL and watch GEGO value %, once the temp is 160C warm up enrichment is done so you take the % value an add or subtract it to the live cell within the tuning software example: Idle 1000RPM TPS14, cell is lit at 64 on the rear cylinder fuel map and GEGO is 107% (it will fluctuate but if this 107% is the center take 7% an add it to the 64 value of the idle cell, do this same 7% for the front same cell if you don't have a separate 02 sensor. You can screw in the idle stop screw and adjust up in the TPS/RPM. Now that you have idle dialed in you shouldn't need to mess with it again. You can take it a step further and a 2 degrees timing to the idle timing area of the map which has a value of 0 degrees on both front and rear timing maps, once RPM stops climbing adding the 2% it is dialed in, for reference I run 8 degrees in this area of the timing maps.

    It's your choice to enable CL idle/timing ECM adjustment or not as this will be a timing multiplier during warmup and adjust fuel accordingly BUT if disabled it will go off the 8 degrees timing in my case and the 64 + 7% fueling in the above example + the warm up enrichment multiplier table within the EEPROM.

    From the ECMSpy website: http://www.ecmspy.com/tgv2/guide2.sh...%20Calculation

    8.1.7 Tidying up of idle
    As a result of setting up the Closed Loop areas, the idle mixture setting was complete, however the ignition timing was not optimised. Since the idle region is defined with a closed throttle, ignition advance was not going be knock limited. Timing in the idle region is corrected as a function of temperature , see 5.2.2, however the base map for DDFI and DDFI-2 is set for zero advance.
    For optimisation, the base map was increased in steps of 2 degrees until engine speed stopped increasing. At this point, the idle screw was adjusted to bring the idle speed back down to 1050 RPM. The result with the fuelling changes was a more stable idle at steady state and on engine deceleration.

  8. #58
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    wrong post
    Last edited by cossack84; 06-15-2019 at 01:37 PM.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by yugo42 View Post
    Sorry, I tried to embed the PNG images so I could label them but it automatically reduces them to small JPGs I guess. I will definitely send the logs when I get home. I really appreciate your input on this!
    No problem. I found I have better luck uploading to image hosting site first before posting on a board.

  10. #60
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    Cossack84 - What's the preferred way to send the logs to you? The zip file is larger than the maximum attachment size for the forum. Email/Dropbox?

    lowkey - Thanks for the input and tips. I downloaded the XPR map extractor the other night but haven't yet had a chance to convert my maps for MLV. The bike is indeed an '04. I have read through the ECMSpy tuning guide a few times and several forum threads related to the subject but so far have been going through the logs as a troubleshooting tool to see if anything obvious is going on before I change fueling/timing. I took the closed loop log to see what the level of EGO correction was, and try to figure out why the bike was much smoother in open-loop running. It sounds like I probably need to go down the path of improving the tuning overall.


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