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Thread: Any last ideas before I dive into the world of custom tunes?

  1. #71
    Senior Member lowkey's Avatar
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    ECMSpy idle ignition table.jpg

    Here is what stock timing looks like (all values on the circled area TPS 10-20 through 1350RPM have been set to 8 degrees).

    ECMSpy ignition timing adjust at idle.jpg

    This is how to tun OFF or ON the temp based timing advance multiplier.

  2. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowkey View Post
    This sounds odd... explain your process for getting the .msq file. I've seen ECMSpy do something similar with .txt files from the internet. I'd suggest running windows signed in as administrator, then right click ECMSpy and choose run as administrator. Connect to the bike and fetch EEPROM then save both the EEPROM and MAP file to desktop. Open a second ECMSpy window and load just the MAP you just saved navigate both windows to the MAPS tab and compare the values match up. I'd also suggest emailing both files to yourself and uploading to you drive account so you always have the unmodified files to go back to even if you computer takes a **** down the road. On desktop I make a folder when doing datalogs and tuning sessions V1-V1.1 etc... this way I can go back if I hit a snag or pick back up where I left off if I can't get to it for a while. You will want to put the log file and the .msq file from each log then after analysis in MLV spits out a refined .msq and you edit the front to match stick that into V1.1 folder with the next log.
    I may not have explained my issue well. I tried to load the MSQ I converted from the XPR from ECMDroid and it showed up oddly when I opened it in ECMSpy. I connected the bike to the laptop tonight and successfully imported the EEPROM and maps into ECMSpy.

    I've seen some advice online stating never to remove fuel when using the VE Analyzer. I'd understand maybe ignoring something with only a few hits, but I have a couple cells with relatively high hit counts that are reducing by about 25(!!). Most are trying to add fuel though. Any reason not to trust what the VE analyzer is saying on backing off fuel? Also, I'm using the "afrbins1" target AFR map per the ECMSpy Tuning Guide (most threads on this I have seen don't specify).
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  3. #73
    Senior Member lowkey's Avatar
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    It appears you have it set up right, with stock NB all you can really get an accurate cell hit on the left fueling side corresponding to the right side cells in AFR bin with target of 14.7 (red cells), all OL/WOT (richer than 14.7) would be out of the NB sensor range BUT if you were to get a lean hit and also look through the log at 02 voltage and see lower than .49V (IIRC as the mid point 02V?) you can trust to add fuel. Here is the best way to attack MLV IMO, take AFV percentage from your last CL all sensors ON ride, let's say it was 115%. I would take that 15% and apply it to all cells but the idle cells as I explained how to dial that in previously in this thread. Now you know it's safe to disable the 02 and not be running lean for lack of ECM corrections. Log and run analysis, you should be scaling back fuel at the cell level where not needed because you blanket added the 15%, you unfortunately are stuck not knowing what really is going on outside CL area of the map. I have a theory on a work around for this BUT haven't tested it because I have a WB and run my logs off of it. Idle was dialed with stock NB sensor though on my bike.

    If you want to attempt my work around PM me your phone number and email and we can discuss further, this would allow you to run analysis on the enter rear fuel map.

    The AFR bins1 file is associated with the front cylinder but IIRC they have the same cell values. Try to reference the sensor data for the cylinder you are working on 1 is the front and 2 is the rear, some of them only reference the rear as you've probably noticed. I can't say where the AFR bins data came from for sure, maybe the BUELL engineers or Gunter has this data infused when pulling the eeprom or map with ECMSpy. If you open the .txt with notepad and have a look you will find this AFR bins data, AFAIK it is only used for running analysis ALSO you can edit the cells for target AFRs of your choosing, mine is edited.

  4. #74
    Senior Member lowkey's Avatar
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    I went through some of the screen grabs I got back when buellitenboard was still around... here is what Mike Cobb (Xoptimized) had to say on setting up the version of MLV that it looks like you are running.
    Xopti instructions for MLV Buell setup.jpg

    Also you can set a cap for Load to 60 as this is the top of the CL area of the fuel map when enabled and the AFRbins should show 14.7AFR as the target up to this TPS value, same for RPM just set it to the highest value in the CL area of your map (4,000RPM?)

    Hope this helps you get started.

  5. #75
    Senior Member rb70383's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yugo42 View Post
    Mine seemed to show some unexpected advance just off idle in the timing map too. I didn't get much time to look into it yet but just found it odd. I'm curious if your table looks like mine.

    Yeah, the jumpiness on turns has me riding like a grandma around corners sometimes. Pretty sad to do on a bike that handles as well as these!
    Pretty much. I smoothed out the timing in that area. World of difference. After my new muffler, the idle picked back up to 950-1050ish rpm. I left it after reading somewhere about the crankpin not liking low idle. Couldn't find it to further research.
    ??I'm guessing possible oil flow from low rpms, and maybe the uneven firing order, causing each power cycle to be felt on the crank..??

  6. #76
    Senior Member rb70383's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cossack84 View Post
    Do you care to post a screen grab of your timing table? Curious to see how it looks.
    Missed this. I will get a screen shot.
    For a quickie, on the timing table posted above. I hit the 3 cells with "5" and the 4th cell with a "12". Blended the cells together. IIRC I also did add some advance to the 800 rpm column. That way if the idle drops, the ecm adds timing to help recover. Easier then it having to add fuel then take away fuel as rpms bounce.


    Not sure I should mention this, but for those that want to research a bit, on the "ecm config" screen, you can change the volts, the o2 sensor references as the midpoint. It will skew the O2 sensor which ever way you bias it. If you make the midpoint, say, .5V the entire map will be richened up, as the 'new midpoint is now .5V
    Last edited by rb70383; 06-18-2019 at 09:10 AM.

  7. #77
    Senior Member lowkey's Avatar
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    Why is anyone trying to run richer than 14.7-1AFR at steady state cruise??? This is the ideal burn ratio. There is already a table in place to compensate fueling on acceleration. The acceleration enrichment table will add necessary fueling to carry you out of the CL (or compensate for TPS value increase wherever you may be in the fuel map) area of the map and into OL or WOT which have their own multipliers on the fuel table of 5% and 10% respectively.

    Acceleration Enrichment table.jpg

    By skewing the 02 (or any other trick to cheat the fuel table) without compensating ALL the various multipliers, all you are doing is causing excessively rich fueling everywhere, burning more fuel, fouling up plugs etc... MLV is for fine tuning the map for your conditions/bike/mods.

    BTW not picking a fight, just stating how it all works together and it is a damn good (and complex!) bit of tuning from the BUELL engineers... It's your bike do as you wish.

  8. #78
    Senior Member Cooter's Avatar
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    ^^^

  9. #79
    Senior Member lowkey's Avatar
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    Also something I've not seen done once someone goes WB (I don't think they care to put in the time and effort to compare data) is input and log both NB and WB same cylinder at the same time to monitor NB use within MLV. If someone has junk yard access and is willing to grab the ECM side NB connector (Bosch single wire female side) and send it to me I'll wire it into the ECM on an unused pin and log both WB and NB. Doing this would have MLV analyze off of the NB input but allow an AFR visual to compare what/why/how? It is making adjustments to the fuel table outside its intended working 14.7AFRbins range and if it can be trusted or not for those stuck with stock rear NB as their only 02 log source. Or if someone can source one online for low cost as I'm coming up with nothing searching.


    MLV with multipliers circled.jpg

    Here is acceleration enrichment along with the other multipliers at work, the circled AFR is from my AEM WB gauge input to the ECM through the stock NB ECM connector.

    From this screen grab and time stamp we can see the ECM is taking the base cell value (white box covered) + 37% acceleration enrichment + WOT enrichment 110%(10%) - IAT enrichment 97% (-3%) and end up with an AFR of 11.38-1 when we want 13.0-1AFR as asked by the AFRbins map at this cell (lots of work to do in this example to remove fuel for target AFR).

    Also of note in the screen grab is the red box under the AFRbins map that is labled "ACCEL-Y", this is stating that if you run analysis this portion of the log will be dismissed because of acceleration enrichment.

  10. #80
    Senior Member Cooter's Avatar
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    That is a fantastic idea lowkey I'm all for quantifying data and that would be a HUGE benefit to se if NB tuning is good, close, or not worth it at all.

    Should be easy to get that common connector, even new from e-bay would be cheap. My scrap pile might have a scuffed header I could weld an extra bung on.



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