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Thread: Any last ideas before I dive into the world of custom tunes?

  1. #41
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    If I remember correctly, I think ECMDroid has entries for max and min AFR that you can just set to 100. That way the system can't adjust based on the closed loop even though it is still reading the o2.

  2. #42
    Senior Member lowkey's Avatar
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    RaceVSStock07EEPROM.jpg

    Here is race vs stock EEPROM's enrichment tables(BUEGB vs BUEIB), I have no way to verify if the data was changed or not as I got them from the internet and not an ECM. The ECMID checks out though... I opened a stock XB9 EEPROM and all values for enrichment are the same except WOT is 105% instead of 110% on the XB12 EEPROM's.

  3. #43
    Senior Member lowkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yugo42 View Post
    If I remember correctly, I think ECMDroid has entries for max and min AFR that you can just set to 100. That way the system can't adjust based on the closed loop even though it is still reading the o2.
    You are correct but you want the O2 signal deactivated from the ECM (making adjustments off the signal) for logging. The voltage for NB is 0-1 and WB is 0-5 also the voltage is reversed for AFR rich/lean. It's two separate things that need to be done, lock AFV at 100% to not skew the fuel tables and disable the O2 sensor so the bike runs in open loop off (the entire map is now open loop) of the fuel map cell data only.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowkey View Post
    Hook up the sensor and pull it out of the header, what AFR and voltage reading do you get? If it reads max lean AFR and 0 volts you will need to track down the data if it reads max AFR but has a voltage percentage I think you could take that as the flat line point in the linear line, do the same in a propane rich cup with the sensor in it to find the voltage point on the other end of the AFR rich spectrum. I would contact for the chart to double check the data works exactly right though to be sure.

    My setup is the gauge mounted to the handlebar as I posted then feed the bulk of the harness into the airbox and zip tie it to the filter cover then feed the wiring harness along the engine harness under the seat. The O2 sensor comes back out the airbox and gets zip tied to the clutch cable bracket on the right side near the front engine mount and into either the front or rear header pipe. The WB signal wire has good length and feeds from under the seat over the shock area into a cutout in the frame then plugs into the stock ECM harness plug for rear O2 sensor.

    I can compare the enrichment tables of stock VS race EEPROM and take a screen shot.
    lowkey once I'm done traveling I'll get the set up out and check the max lean and voltage it puts out. It will probably be some time this weekend.
    I dont have and AFR guage but other then that sounds about the same to yours.

    Quote Originally Posted by lowkey View Post
    RaceVSStock07EEPROM.jpg

    Here is race vs stock EEPROM's enrichment tables(BUEGB vs BUEIB), I have no way to verify if the data was changed or not as I got them from the internet and not an ECM. The ECMID checks out though... I opened a stock XB9 EEPROM and all values for enrichment are the same except WOT is 105% instead of 110% on the XB12 EEPROM's.

    Those tables look the same in my bike as well. Seems like if your bike is running good, with out jerking, and stumbling, maybe acceleration enrichment is not the culprit.


    How ever I do think mine is running "lean" during idle. Tuning guide recommends 14.7, and as low as 13.2 for crisp idle. I did fattened up the idle area a little and will have to see what it looks like after weather gets a bit better.
    Last edited by cossack84; 03-17-2019 at 04:08 PM.

  5. #45
    Senior Member Cooter's Avatar
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    FYI, Enriching the idle to as little as a 14:0 target makes for a stinky stop light.

  6. #46
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    It finally stopped raining enough around here to get some logging in! Unfortunately the bike behaved pretty well the whole time so I'm not sure what troubleshooting I will get out of it. I had corrections off and weather was a perfect 68 degrees so I'll probably have to try to keep logging in different situations. Haven't had a chance to bring it in to MLV yet.

    I was thinking as I was riding - one of the things that makes this cruising stumble so hard to deal with is how jerky the throttle is when going from idle/cruising/coast to a very slight throttle application. Slight adjustments at lower speeds result in lurching. Can this be dealt with in the acceleration enrichment tables to some degree rather than fiddling with the whole map?

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by yugo42 View Post
    It finally stopped raining enough around here to get some logging in! Unfortunately the bike behaved pretty well the whole time so I'm not sure what troubleshooting I will get out of it. I had corrections off and weather was a perfect 68 degrees so I'll probably have to try to keep logging in different situations. Haven't had a chance to bring it in to MLV yet.

    I was thinking as I was riding - one of the things that makes this cruising stumble so hard to deal with is how jerky the throttle is when going from idle/cruising/coast to a very slight throttle application. Slight adjustments at lower speeds result in lurching. Can this be dealt with in the acceleration enrichment tables to some degree rather than fiddling with the whole map?
    Here are the things that made jerky throttle better on my bike.
    I found out that intake seals leaked and spent couple month battling that issue. I ended up using Hylomar blue sealant. Also found that some times when, either unloading or downloading to ecm, some cells can get corrupt. Downloading a "fresh" tune that never been used before, cured some of the jerking. And the last thing that I think made a difference was taking time to adjust throttle cables. There are few data logs I have that show throttle jumping from 10 ADC count at closed to 20 ADC, with no readings in between. After the above changes data log slows throttle positioning at 10 and 12 and 14 and 15.
    Hope this helps, I'll try posting few screen shots from mega log viewer.
    Last edited by cossack84; 06-04-2019 at 11:54 AM.

  8. #48
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    Thanks for the input! I'd love to see the mega log viewer screen shots. I replaced the intake seals on the bike a couple years ago after I first got it on the road - they didn't show signs they had been leaking and the new ones didn't change things. That said, I didn't use additional sealant on them. The throttle cable adjustment thing is interesting - I'm guessing the cables had too much tension between them? I just got my logs onto the PC last night and played with the MLV HD free trial to get a feel for how to set up the plots before I buy a license. I'll be on the lookout for TPS jumps when I dig into it.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by yugo42 View Post
    Thanks for the input! I'd love to see the mega log viewer screen shots. I replaced the intake seals on the bike a couple years ago after I first got it on the road - they didn't show signs they had been leaking and the new ones didn't change things. That said, I didn't use additional sealant on them. The throttle cable adjustment thing is interesting - I'm guessing the cables had too much tension between them? I just got my logs onto the PC last night and played with the MLV HD free trial to get a feel for how to set up the plots before I buy a license. I'll be on the lookout for TPS jumps when I dig into it.
    Cant find a log with choppy load data in it. Here are couple of screen grabs of the latest ride and slow/light load.





    Mind that mine is still not as smooth as I think it should be. considering that cursing at ~75 mph load is ~45, so going from 10 at idle and jumping to 20 would make it very jerky. It also could be a mechanical/linkage problem.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by cossack84 View Post
    Cant find a log with choppy load data in it. Here are couple of screen grabs of the latest ride and slow/light load.

    Mind that mine is still not as smooth as I think it should be. considering that cursing at ~75 mph load is ~45, so going from 10 at idle and jumping to 20 would make it very jerky. It also could be a mechanical/linkage problem.
    Thanks for the visuals! Does your AFV/EGO value of 115 at cruise concern you? That seems like it must need to add a lot of fuel consistently.

    I finally logged a couple more rides - one with corrections turned off, and one with them on so I could see how the system was correcting. The riding felt a little smoother running open loop, but the data consistently showed idle being lean and cruising being rich. Since I'm just using a narrowband, it was hard to tell how much. Turning everything back to default EGO/AFV settings showed that most often the EGO correction was taking away fuel at cruising (89-95) and adding fuel at idle (105 or so). There were areas in the data with exceptions though. I didn't have enough rides in to establish AFV but previous times I checked it with ECMDroid it always hovered around 105. The first ride was at about 70 degrees F, the second about 77.

    I'm guessing this means my base fuel map needs work, but I also wonder if it is worth replacing the o2 sensor just to eliminate a possible issue there. It seems to be behaving normally, bouncing rich to lean with corrections in place and outputting expected voltages.



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