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Thread: One more time on ECM

  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by lunaticfringe View Post
    Hey Osvaldo,

    not specifically criticizing you in the least. being a new board member you clearly have no context or historical perspective on these endless mind-numbing "tuning threads" that inherently go nowhere...hold no intrinsic value for 99% of board members...and accomplish little to nothing. they're traditionally filled with techno jibberish that is beyond the comprehension level of most board members and admittedly, myself included.
    my philosophy and position has consistently been this during 25 years of Buell ownership:
    there is no hidden SUBSTANTIAL power and performance gains lurking within the factory ECM.
    there is enhanced rideability and enjoyment obtainable thru a simple one-and-done proven map installation.
    get the bike in perfect operational condition then religiously maintain it.
    if you have the equipment...desire...capability and patience.....install a simple generic proven "race map" and ride the bike.
    if one feels tepid or unsure of their ability to perform the above then simply follow Josh's lead and have an outfit such as IDS do it for you.
    my comments above based on 2 specific things:
    1-watching this board become clogged with endless 17 page "tuning threads"
    2-receiving countless PM's....emails....phone calls thru the years from inveterate souls now looking for advice and counsel on how to resolve their "bricked ecm" dilemmas.
    Hi lunaticfringe,

    my pleasure to ear from you.
    I'm new, but I read many and many post on the forum and I can realize what you mean.
    Part I agree, part non so much.
    To talk about that we will go 'off topic'.
    May be I will open another thread on that cause it's intersting see how each other feel about to own and ride his (her) motorbike.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by njloco View Post
    I agree^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^, and not because I've been a Buell owner for a long time. I've only been here for a few years now but, I've noticed that the only thing that messing around inside the ECM brings is, a smoother ride, a little more HP. Maybe because I'm old school and before buying my first Buell I had not been riding for quite a few years but, I like the way my bikes run. The only thing I had a problem with was when my Ully would first warm up it would cough a little for the first couple of minutes of riding from a stop and take off, now with the new iridium plugs installed, that has stopped.
    With the 07 SS, I have a Buell tooth and followed the instructions from the above mentioned Co. and still get a bit of back firing when engine braking but, it runs great so why mess with it and besides, they do not have a map for a Special Ops muffler.
    Good luck to you guys, you spend so much time on it, I hope you get want you want.
    I'll also admit that I know very little about messing with maps.
    Hi njloco,

    thank you, I also know very little and I don't like this.
    That's why I am doing a lot of effort to change that.
    This is my way to intend to own and use any machine, motorbike first of all...
    I need to get connetted...
    Not to say this is the only way, just mine...

  3. #43
    Hi Bueller tech guys,

    as I am trying to figure out everything another question arise:

    I read somewhere that DDFI III ECM read sensors 30 times/sec (0.033 sec)
    So I suppose the ECM output calculation is not intended to give new value each combustions (0.02 sec at even only 6000 RPM), but every 0.xxx sec.
    It seems to me that MLV gives to the monitor new values every something less than 0.2 sec, but not always the same.
    As far as you know, the times shown by MLV are true time in between of every new calculation or ECM is faster and the BuellTooth - ECMdroid - MLV arrangement is just not fast enough to shows all of them?
    I other words can I be sure that injectors and coils are governed exactly as we can see in MLW?

    EFIs are not done straight by God, but by men, so maybe we can get the point too...

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by osvaldo View Post
    Hi Bueller tech guys,

    as I am trying to figure out everything another question arise:

    I read somewhere that DDFI III ECM read sensors 30 times/sec (0.033 sec)
    So I suppose the ECM output calculation is not intended to give new value each combustions (0.02 sec at even only 6000 RPM), but every 0.xxx sec.
    It seems to me that MLV gives to the monitor new values every something less than 0.2 sec, but not always the same.
    As far as you know, the times shown by MLV are true time in between of every new calculation or ECM is faster and the BuellTooth - ECMdroid - MLV arrangement is just not fast enough to shows all of them?
    I other words can I be sure that injectors and coils are governed exactly as we can see in MLW?

    EFIs are not done straight by God, but by men, so maybe we can get the point too...
    I think ECM reads certain data 30 times a second and other way faster. For example to calculate acceleration enrichment it reads throttle position at least every revolution. If my math is right that's 0.008 seconds at 7k rpm.
    What I think you see in MLV is slow data rate at which bueltooth collects/records information. Probably a limitation of collection device rather then ECM or the MLV.

  5. #45
    Hi cossack84,

    you are very kind to converse with me, thanks a lots.
    It seems we are following the same path, you just are some miles forward...

    For everybody who like it:
    using TunerPro I started to try to read my fuel maps.
    Just to compare I downloaded from Buelltooth the EEPROM for Drummer SS.
    I am stunned to see that at least as far as fuel map it is exactly the same of mine.
    Is that possible?
    Keeping in mind that my EGO is constantly low down to as much as 65%, I am wondering if maybe the previous owner worked on ECM.
    Is there any way I can see the original set up (is that the calibration n ???) that is supposed to be installed in my European 2009 XB12 Ss long?

    Trying to be of some help to somebody like me...
    I have had a book on automotive electronics devices that I started to read.
    It seems to me that it can be of great help to get on some more on the subject; easy enough without be inane.
    From the same author, in the same style, there is a much in deep version, for who is much forward than me.
    They are:

    1. Understanding Automotive Electronics - Sams undestanding series - William B. Ribbens_Norman P. Mansour

    2. Understanding Automotive Electronics - An Engineering Perspective - 7th edition - William B. Ribbens

    Thanks again, everybody

  6. #46
    Senior Member d_adams's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by osvaldo View Post
    ust to compare I downloaded from Buelltooth the EEPROM for Drummer SS.
    I am stunned to see that at least as far as fuel map it is exactly the same of mine.
    Is that possible?

    Plain and simple answer, theft of IP. No physical way possible for two different tuners to come up with identical maps for completely different exhaust systems.

    I've never looked at the calibrations in question, I have no reason to do so. I build my own exhaust systems and work directly with IDS to get the calibrations perfected the way I want them done.
    It costs a small amount of money (the 1190 was over $4k) and time to do it properly. Wideband O2 sensors are a must. I'm going out today to do a couple of them at a local dyno shop to dial them in.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by d_adams View Post
    Plain and simple answer, theft of IP. No physical way possible for two different tuners to come up with identical maps for completely different exhaust systems.

    I've never looked at the calibrations in question, I have no reason to do so. I build my own exhaust systems and work directly with IDS to get the calibrations perfected the way I want them done.
    It costs a small amount of money (the 1190 was over $4k) and time to do it properly. Wideband O2 sensors are a must. I'm going out today to do a couple of them at a local dyno shop to dial them in.
    Hi Adam,

    As already said I am just trying to improve my knowledge, so maybe some of my guesses look, and actually are, stupid.
    I guessed my ECM was untouched, but now seeing the identic Drummer fuel maps, together with the fact that the bike seems always very rich I am wondering if maybe the previous owner changed something, for example loading the Drummer set up.
    This is the reason why I would like to discover how can be identified the set up that was supposed to be on my bike, get it, and look at that.
    Seriously, is there something wrong?
    If not, any help in that sense will be appreciated.

    Also, maybe wrongly, I guess that any tuners start from the OEM configuration, changing what they think need to be and living alone other parts, so they stay identical to the original. Seriously, can we call that a theft or plagiarism?

    By the way, sometimes ago I checked your job on the exhausts and I liked a lot. Bravo!

  8. #48
    Senior Member d_adams's Avatar
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    Far from a stupid guess, it's just some people have far more knowledge than others. Asking questions and taking stuff apart is how you learn. I learned quite a bit more than I knew previously after a 7+ hour dyno session yesterday. I targeted 13:1 air/fuel for an 07 xb, got rid of all the decel popping and ended up with a very smooth running bike. It didn't make the power I wanted to see, but it pulls far harder and cleaner than it did before I got started on this one.
    It was all tuned with widebands, everything stock except the exhaust. I started with the base stock calibration, switched to the Buell P&A calibration that shipped with the programmable ecm and finally a test cal that had been generated for me to use based on an 09 xb12. It was so far off the bike wouldn't run up past 4k rpm correctly with any of them, so it was a complete learning curve to fix it and make it run the way I wanted.



    Last edited by d_adams; 07-14-2019 at 11:43 PM.

  9. #49
    Hi guys,

    Very impossible thing.
    In my last log viewing it in MLV, you can read O2 sensor voltage up to 1.505 V.
    That's impossible even with a broken sensor.
    Any idea what is going on?

  10. #50
    Hi men (and women, i hope),

    anybody had the same issue before me?
    I imagine it must have been spent a lot of hours by many people looking at MLV analisys.
    Anybody never seen even something else apparently inexplicable?



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