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Thread: Warped Front Brake Rotor

  1. #21
    Senior Member Cooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lunaticfringe View Post
    "engineers" are typically very odd people. they tend to be argumentative....hyper critical of everything that wasn't graced with their expertise and "golden touch"....and know-it-alls in every conceivable arena one could imagine. they're difficult and stubborn

    simply google "buell ZTL brake" and read for yourself what Buell and Hurda et al. were thinking and why they perceived the giant front rotor and perimeter mounting system as a great idea and grand engineering feat.

    there is no such thing as "caliper knock-back". there is a very rare track phenomenon known as "pad knock-back". doubt it was a ZTL consideration during development.

    the inherent problem and design-parameter flaw that was over-loooked by these guys during development was what i call "wobble"....or "lateral rotor run-out". a basic tenet of a component in rotation is that the further-from-center you go....the greater the chance of wobble or deflection in lateral run-out. when this principle is applied to the giant ZTL rotor, the end result is an eventual pulsing brake lever which annoys the hell out of every motorcyclist i've ever known including myself. approximately 65% of all XB models while under warranty, came back to franchised dealers to address a "pulsing front brake lever"....which cost buell a small fortune. IMO the unique look and perceived benefits were far out-weighed by the real world problems the entire system presented to dealers and privateers doing their own maintenance and repairs. i hate it!
    Quoting this Nob sensical gobbilty-gook so it cant be deleted.

  2. #22
    Senior Member Chicknstripn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lunaticfringe View Post
    "engineers" are typically very odd people. they tend to be argumentative....hyper critical of everything that wasn't graced with their expertise and "golden touch"....and know-it-alls in every conceivable arena one could imagine. they're difficult and stubborn

    simply google "buell ZTL brake" and read for yourself what Buell and Hurda et al. were thinking and why they perceived the giant front rotor and perimeter mounting system as a great idea and grand engineering feat.

    there is no such thing as "caliper knock-back". there is a very rare track phenomenon known as "pad knock-back". doubt it was a ZTL consideration during development.

    the inherent problem and design-parameter flaw that was over-loooked by these guys during development was what i call "wobble"....or "lateral rotor run-out". a basic tenet of a component in rotation is that the further-from-center you go....the greater the chance of wobble or deflection in lateral run-out. when this principle is applied to the giant ZTL rotor, the end result is an eventual pulsing brake lever which annoys the hell out of every motorcyclist i've ever known including myself. approximately 65% of all XB models while under warranty, came back to franchised dealers to address a "pulsing front brake lever"....which cost buell a small fortune. IMO the unique look and perceived benefits were far out-weighed by the real world problems the entire system presented to dealers and privateers doing their own maintenance and repairs. i hate it!
    I agree with Lunatic, on all the points made above.
    IF the ZTL brake design WAS as revolutionary and amazing as it LOOKS, it would be found on every race bike in the world.
    No other manufacturer has pushed for a ZTL design for a reason. It sucks at doing what brakes should do; stop without fading, warping or pulsating. Yes it saves wait and changes the rotational mass and centrifugal forces on the front wheel but those benefits are minimal when you can’t repeatedly out brake the competition.

    Don’t get me wrong, it’s a very cool design, but as far as efficiency and function are concerned it’s just NOT.

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  4. #24
    Senior Member Cooter's Avatar
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    Hey Chicken, Buell brakes aren't the best out there. I don't think anyones saying that.

    It is impressive that Buell design has remained basically unchanged more than a decade later on a 185HP Panigale fighting superbike while massive 320MM dual disks and Brembo M50 mono blocks are the norm now. EBR brakes are for sure NOT as good as those.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chicknstripn View Post
    IF the ZTL brake design WAS as revolutionary and amazing as it LOOKS, it would be found on every race bike in the world.
    Remember how much crap was talked about the weird Buell underslung muffler? Seen a super bike lately? How about stainless braided brake lines, another Buell first for production bikes. Not all revolutions are loud, my man I believe the Buell perimeter rotor is past it's prime, but it's far from the POS some people are saying.

    IMHO the spring-washer-floating-assembly causes more brake feel issues than it solves. That sure explains the existence of the EBR mounting kit and the stock application of it on the new EBR's.

    Quote Originally Posted by lunaticfringe View Post
    approximately 65% of all XB models while under warranty, came back to franchised dealers to address a "pulsing front brake lever"....
    That would have been a recall of massive proportion and headline news. The NHSTA doesn't take lightly to brake issues.




    89% of statistics are made up on the spot, and you can quote me on that! Haha
    Last edited by Cooter; 10-21-2019 at 12:25 AM.

  5. #25
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    While they might not be the best, so far, they get the job done for me.



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