Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 24

Thread: Misfire when engine very hot, error 13 - Rear O2 Sensor always lean

  1. #11
    Senior Member Cooter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Crawling up your skirt
    Posts
    10,877
    Screen Shot 2021-01-05 at 8.08.09 AM.png



  2. #12
    Senior Member 34nineteen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Kolache Factory
    Posts
    4,424
    Quote Originally Posted by Barrett View Post
    I kept the Buelltooth dongle connected to my phone (in a RAM mount on the handlebars) as I rode and the hottest I saw was 241°c when on the motorway riding at around 110km/h in 4th (so up near 4k RPM). In traffic it sat around 200ish with the fan whirring away the whole time.


    hold on there HotRod! you're seeing CYLINDER HEAD TEMPERATURE of 466 degrees fahrenheit? is that correct?
    that equates to an approx. parallel oil temp of close to 400 degrees fahrenheit.
    not only impossible...but catastrophic.
    why? because during developmental testing of H-D air-cooled V-twins, 330/290 fahrenheit is considered the upper limits of acceptable head/oil temps before the onset of imminent damage.
    you're almost 45% above those developmental standards.
    Well, how hot does it get in hell?


  3. #13
    Junior Member llama's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    23
    Quote Originally Posted by Barrett View Post
    hold on there HotRod! you're seeing CYLINDER HEAD TEMPERATURE of 466 degrees fahrenheit? is that correct?
    Uh, yeah, that should be 241°F (damn freedom units ;-P )

  4. #14
    Junior Member llama's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    23
    I received a care package from St Paul H-D two weeks ago that included a new ignition coil and finally got around to installing it on Saturday. As Monday was a public holiday where I live and the day was nice and hot (around 29°C) I took the opportunity to go for ride - around 440km of slow traffic, high speed boring motorway, nice twisty tarmac and ~50km of dusty gravel. The bike ran like a champ, no check engine light and no misfire.

    It's early days, but I'm sure on a multi hour run in such warm weather it would have stuttered and misfired in the past, and I had got used to seeing the check engine light on my commute in to work during the week. No check engine light and it pulled strong all day - I'm tentatively calling this fixed

  5. #15
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Boynton Beach, FL
    Posts
    61
    Check your AFV on the ECM parameters/AFV settings page of ecmdroid.

  6. #16
    Junior Member llama's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    23
    Hey upaero, what AFV am I looking for? I haven't actually looked at ECMDroid since replacing the ignition module, the bike is running great, no check engine errors and no misfire.

  7. #17
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Boynton Beach, FL
    Posts
    61
    Quote Originally Posted by llama View Post
    Hey upaero, what AFV am I looking for? I haven't actually looked at ECMDroid since replacing the ignition module, the bike is running great, no check engine errors and no misfire.
    It should be close to 100 at sea level. rev-mo.com/afv.

  8. #18
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Boynton Beach, FL
    Posts
    61
    Quote Originally Posted by Barrett View Post
    I kept the Buelltooth dongle connected to my phone (in a RAM mount on the handlebars) as I rode and the hottest I saw was 241°c when on the motorway riding at around 110km/h in 4th (so up near 4k RPM). In traffic it sat around 200ish with the fan whirring away the whole time.


    hold on there HotRod! you're seeing CYLINDER HEAD TEMPERATURE of 466 degrees fahrenheit? is that correct?
    that equates to an approx. parallel oil temp of close to 400 degrees fahrenheit.
    not only impossible...but catastrophic.
    why? because during developmental testing of H-D air-cooled V-twins, 330/290 fahrenheit is considered the upper limits of acceptable head/oil temps before the onset of imminent damage.
    you're almost 45% above those developmental standards.
    The engine temp he is seeing is in Celsius. The warm up enrichment (WUE) tables enrich the fuel until about 200C. The fan doesn't come on until 220C. This is measured right at the top of the head, very close to the combustion chamber. Of course the cylinder walls will be much cooler. An engine temp of 241C is a bit excessive though, which is a result of running lean.

    CLT Tables.png

  9. #19
    Senior Member 34nineteen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Kolache Factory
    Posts
    4,424
    I thought that sensor was just a "switch" to turn the fan on and off by basically telling the ECM when it reached a certain point. I learned something today.

  10. #20
    Junior Member llama's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    23
    Quote Originally Posted by upaero View Post
    It should be close to 100 at sea level. rev-mo.com/afv.
    Sorry for the delay in getting this - I finally had time to do a 45 minute highway loop with the phone on so I could take screenshots. It looks like my AFV is normally 90% - I checked it over a few days multiple times - here it is about 20 seconds after starting the engine at idle:

    Screenshot_20210209-175723.jpg

    Here it is after a 5th gear run up a long shallow incline at about 110~120km/h (~3500rpm), still at 90%:

    Screenshot_20210222-175909.jpg

    I have *once* seen it at 85.5% on a different day - again at the top of the same incline but this time I went up in 4th (so ~4000rpm+ for a few minutes - this is also the highest temp I've seen over the last few runs, 237°):

    Screenshot_20210222-175812.jpg

    That last one is a bit low according to the link you posted "...a number lower than 100 means it is removing fuel due to a sensed rich condition. Generally speaking, your AFV should be within 10% of 100" I checked the AFV setting as outlined in the Revision Moto post and it's set to 90% (ignore the front number, I only have the rear O2 sensor):

    Screenshot_20210225-143518.jpg

    So I'm thinking I should set this to 100% (or maybe just over - from https://www.rev-mo.com/openloop: "If it was a stock bike with a stock exhaust we may want to start at 104. This starting point also depends on what your current AFV value, but it should be close to 100"). I am running a K&N air filter but factory exhaust. The bike did have a sportier exhaust on it when I bought it (which I found too loud, hence the stock one now fitted), so maybe the previous owner was messing with settings...

    Also on that same page "...Buells have a nasty tendency to develop a lean condition due to inaccurate O2 sensing which shows up as an AFV of less than 100 at or near sea level. In this case, the ECM "thinks" that the motorcycle is going up in altitude, so it is reducing the fuel delivery across the board." - Do you reckon this is what I'm seeing (the engine is sensed to be too rich)? Or simply that the AFV is set too low (90% instead of 100+)?

    P.S Having said all the above, since replacing the ignition coil the bike has been running fine, no hiccoughs or pops, pulls nicely through the rev range.



Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •