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Thread: Lightning short gremlin

  1. #11
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    Glad you guys are having so much fun at my expense. No meth involved, I put the bike back together per the manual, but cant hook up neg terminal. The bike is useless to me without being able to find the problem, so maybe I gave too much information, and confused you all. There is a bad ground or a short somewhere that is preventing me from hooking up the neg battery lead. I was hoping for suggestions not smart ass remarks from people I know have more experience with the bikes, so I apologize for giving more information than was required to get to that point.

    I mentioned the push button start because I had trouble getting the starter wire connected to it, thought maybe that was the source, and thought perhaps you guys might have had an experience with that sort of revision, or problems arising from it.

    Maybe if I knew where the ground points other than the tie bar, and the two under the seat were, I could resolve this. What is the triple and where would that ground point be specifically. I cant seem to locate that information but have seen it referenced in the forum, although I am not certain it would help. That is why I thought asking someone with more experience would help, but instead I have become a source of humor. Glad I could make you smirk. I do want to respect your knowledge, but not sure you have it now since you mentioned the fan would start but it wont arc and heat up, I cant connect the damn battery so how could the fan start...the battery isn't hooked up. Did you miss that detail?

    No fuses have blown, I have checked every time I tried to connect the battery. There may be inline fuses for the battery tender and power plug that were added, but they should not be receiving power without the bike turned on so....

    I'm not going to address the machine shop issue, its none of your concern why I want the bike to run, actually, just know that I do, that's why I asked for help from you.
    Last edited by COOPSTER; 11-17-2021 at 06:20 PM. Reason: spelling error

  2. #12
    Senior Member 34nineteen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by COOPSTER View Post
    There is a bad ground or a short somewhere that is preventing me from hooking up the neg battery lead.
    Quote Originally Posted by COOPSTER View Post
    I cant connect the damn battery
    Quote Originally Posted by COOPSTER View Post

    No fuses have blown, I have checked every time I tried to connect the battery.
    Quote Originally Posted by COOPSTER View Post

    I'm not going to address the machine shop issue

    This is really all that we needed. Lets get started.....
    Last edited by 34nineteen; 11-17-2021 at 09:15 PM.

  3. #13
    Senior Member 34nineteen's Avatar
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    So, I'm not even going to look at the service book for this one, lets just do common sense...

    The facts:

    -You get a pretty significant arc when you try to connect the battery.

    -But a fuse doesn't blow.

    - All of the circuits are protected by fuses except one.... the main battery cable.

    -You said you had head work done, so you either rotated the engine, or removed the frame.



    A : My guess is that you crushed the positive battery cable when you rotated the engine back in place (or reinstalled the frame).


    You're likely going to have to re-rotate the engine or pull the frame off to get access to it. You may be lucky enough to be able to just remove the front and rear mounting bolts and tie bars and let the engine down an inch or two, and hopefully get access. You are going to need to remove the harness and reinsulate it before you go on.


    Is it a ground issue? No! Unless you mean the positive cable being pushed into the frame and being grounded out. A grounding issue would either look like your battery was low on charge or not connected at all, at this point. Once you got it running, it would manifest in other ways.
    Last edited by 34nineteen; 11-17-2021 at 09:36 PM.

  4. #14
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    The one area of suspicion for a high current ground short is the starter motor cable going to the battery positive as mentioned in the previous post, therefore this is a point to look into -

    I mentioned the push button start because I had trouble getting the starter wire connected to it, thought maybe that was the source, and thought perhaps you guys might have had an experience with that sort of revision, or problems arising from it.
    I'm not familiar with what this is - I have seen the push buttons that mechanically push the solenoid but mention of connecting the starter wire on something catches my eye given the direct connection to battery with the main starter wire.
    Can you post a picture of what this set-up is please?

  5. #15
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    Have we verified the battery is correct as in terminal orientation?

  6. #16
    Senior Member Cooter's Avatar
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    You are getting razzed because you are asking for total guesses with ZERO info or communication skills. Note we are still helping...

    Quote Originally Posted by Cooter View Post
    Even if it's the wrong battery and you are hooking up backwards without looking at the big (+) and (-) labels, it still won't arc and heat up! The fan will run and it won't start but it won't arc and heat up!
    Read this again ^^^
    Lack of a ground point will not arc and get hot. Even hooking the battery up backwards, will not arc and get hot, you have a straight short to ground in a very big wire.

    The starter wire (the big red one) has voltage ALL THE TIME. It goes directly from the battery + to the starter terminal. You mentioned you had trouble getting it to reach the starter.... I'm betting that without much info, without even a basic description, and without any pictures at all, 34:19 is right.

    You can install an engine, but can't check a big red wire thats only 10" long?

    Wanna know what else is thick, red, smoking hot, and 10" long?
    Last edited by Cooter; 11-18-2021 at 04:22 AM.

  7. #17
    Senior Member Cooter's Avatar
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    Twizzlers.

  8. #18
    Senior Member Barrett's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outlaw View Post
    Have we verified the battery is correct as in terminal orientation?

    Coopster: Josh brings up an excellent point that we've seen quite often on here. The OEM issued and installed battery in all XB models is the ETX-14 supplied to Harley-Davidson and Buell by Deka Corp here in PA.
    Any aftermarket cross-referenced battery to the ETX-14 will fit and have correct terminal orientation.
    IF said battery has an "L" after the #14....its terminals are reversed. Check yours.

  9. #19
    Senior Member 34nineteen's Avatar
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    So I decided to actually look at the service manual.... and right at the beginning I found this diagram.

    1.jpg

    Which is this wire(s). Either of these shorting to ground will cause a arc and wires to heat up when you connect the battery, regardless of whether you're hooking it up backwards or not... which wouldnt surprise me either.

    Capture.jpg

    Unless you have some other wires hooked up to the battery you failed to mention (wouldnt be surprised). Plus with all your blathering about a starter wire and button "revision" , who knows what you might have going on there. For all we know he has a jumper cable attached to the positive terminal and the engine in his search for the "triple" and the grounding issue".

  10. #20
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    Thanks, that helps, it is obviously a big wire short, I appreciate the information, and I can take the razz. Just as long as I can punch it back with same consideration,
    because I needed the help. The reason I blathered about the starter push button was because I am aware it is representing a "big wire" issue and no, I didn't hook the battery up backwards, its not possible the wire is too "short", haha.

    I did remove the frame so I'll rewind, and thank you. I really didn't change any of the information I gave, I just wrote it like a girl, cuz I am. See that explains everything for you doesn't it? I admit the twizzler joke was hysterical. Don't tell anyone, though, you'll ruin my reputation for sure.

    I didn't install the push button, I just reconnected it, and the trouble I had with that was actually just getting a wrench on it in tight quarters.

    I'll send a pic tomorrow, for your further edification, of the push button starter, and let you know how it goes.

    Thanks again



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