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Thread: piston rings

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by 34nineteen View Post
    I want to know how you made it so far without referencing a service manual. There are installation procedures and torque specs that need to be adhered to, to help insure success. I know the service manual calls out a suggested oil as well. Its even in section 1-5 which is oddly called out as "Fuel and Oil".


    There are also a whole list of suggestions on Hammer Performance's website with break in recommendations and procedures for new rings and what oil they recommend. They are one of the leading sellers of Harley/Buell cylinder kits and have a wealth of resources on their webpage. In fact, their homepage advertises Harley and Buell cylinders kits front and center.

    I would highly recommend following the advice given from Buell themselves in the service manual or from a proven leader like Hammer rather than just asking some internet randos, most of which should not be allowed near tools anyways.

    Since we are in a poetic mood lately, I dedicate this one to you:

    Violets are blue
    Roses are red
    Instead of reading the (free) service manual
    I asked strangers on the internet instead.
    If you would read my former posts you would know I do have a SM as I have referred to it. You seem to have a reading comprehension problem. I did not ask what type of oil to run in the bike I asked opinions on who thought using non synth oil was needed during break in. In my service manual 1.5 is simply how to check and change your oil.

    If you feel the need to put someone down in order to help them, maybe you should just pass.

    But thanks for the poem.
    Last edited by BuddyB; 07-07-2022 at 05:35 PM.

  2. #22
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    Thanks Barrett, I appreciate it.

  3. #23
    Senior Member Cooter's Avatar
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    I agree. Regular non-synthetic oil in the appropriate weight from the chart for the coldest temp the bike will be ridden. Nothing wrong with using break-in oil either, but since you didn't replace the cam/lifters, regular oil is fine.

    You DID put assembly lube on the cams, right!? A dry motor is a dry motor, whether the cams are new or not.

  4. #24
    Senior Member Barrett's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BuddyB View Post
    Thanks Barrett, I appreciate it.

    Yes Sir my pleasure. If you'd like to assure sufficient oil system pressure and positive lubrication of the internal running parts prior to lighting off this motor for the first time following reassembly, then do this:
    1-remove the fuse box lid...locate the 10A FUEL PUMP fuse...remove same
    2-hook jumper box or 10A charger to battery and crank over the motor for 10-15 seconds max

    This will charge the oiling system, lube critical internal components and expel most all air that has seeped into the oiling system.

  5. #25
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    Thanks Barrett,

    The only thing I don't quite understand is that this bike has been down for oh maybe a month. So I realize that the bore and rings need to be tended to, but if I used (which I did ) assembly lube on the wrist pin I took out, on the ends of each push rod, on the valve ends where the rocker touches what if any need is there to pump up the oil pressure before starting.

    If in another scenario the bike had been just sitting for a year, most wouldn't think anything of throwing a new battery in and firing it up. And apart from
    the bore and rings, the lubrication throughout the rest of the motor is really no different than it sitting for a while, the way I see it.

    If I'm missing something...


    Thanks
    Last edited by BuddyB; 07-07-2022 at 10:13 PM.

  6. #26
    Senior Member 34nineteen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BuddyB View Post
    If you would read my former posts you would know I do have a SM as I have referred to it. You seem to have a reading comprehension problem. I did not ask what type of oil to run in the bike I asked opinions on who thought using non synth oil was needed during break in. In my service manual 1.5 is simply how to check and change your oil.

    If you feel the need to put someone down in order to help them, maybe you should just pass.

    But thanks for the poem.


    I never said you didnt have a manual. I said you didnt read it. The service manual calls out the types of viscosities and weights recommended from the manufacturer on what to use. It even points out to use a non-synthetic oil.

    If you dont feel comfortable with what Buell recommends, I pointed out another reputable source of information of where to find an answer.

    The comment about "internet randos who should not be allowed near tools" wasn't meant towards you.

    I'm sorry if you feel attacked or insulted. I often forget that a lot of people these days get hurt easily and I hope you find redemption in this. I apologize for triggering you and I really have no idea of what you are capable of when given the chance. You appear to be a talented person with many redeeming qualities and I apparently don't realize how special you really are.

  7. #27
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    You my friend are a piece of work.

  8. #28
    Senior Member 34nineteen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BuddyB View Post
    You my friend are a piece of work.

    Do you need another apology?

  9. #29
    Senior Member 34nineteen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BuddyB View Post
    Thanks Barrett,

    The only thing I don't quite understand is that this bike has been down for oh maybe a month. So I realize that the bore and rings need to be tended to, but if I used (which I did ) assembly lube on the wrist pin I took out, on the ends of each push rod, on the valve ends where the rocker touches what if any need is there to pump up the oil pressure before starting.

    If in another scenario the bike had been just sitting for a year, most wouldn't think anything of throwing a new battery in and firing it up. And apart from
    the bore and rings, the lubrication throughout the rest of the motor is really no different than it sitting for a while, the way I see it.

    If I'm missing something...


    Thanks

    Sportster and Buell motors tend to drain down the oil from the tank to the sump and cause a situation called "wet sumping". Some do this fairly quickly, some do it over a long period of time, some don't at all.

    If this occurs, until this is rectified the pump can cavitate and run dry, until the pump can get the oil back into the tank. This has been an issue on these bikes over the years, and the 2007 pump was revised to help address this. 2008-up models use a different pump design altogether.

    So, given the choice between following Barrett's advice and priming the oil system first... I'm with you... throw a battery in, hit the starter and rev that baby up. HELL YEAH!!!!!!!! Put some Monster Energy stickers on it while you're at it. Spray paint the exhaust black too. That would be so rad.

    Barrett's advice for purging the air oil first is for p*ssies anyhow, and you my friend, are not a p*ssy.

    Most of the companies that supply engine parts instruct people to properly heat cycle to the engine to help seat new rings. They have a deliberate process for how this should be done and say its mandatory for proper ring sealing, but what do they know, right? I dont believe this is covered in the service manual, so dont waste your time looking in there for .... wait...never mind.


    Here, let me help you with that. I dont want you to waste valuable time on the internet looking this stuff up. I realize you didnt install new pistons, and I hope that doesnt feel like a put down, but the point behind the instructions below is to help seat the new rings straight from the good guys at Hammer Performance. You're a good guy too, sorry if you felt excluded from that and that wasn't my intention.

    I do enjoy the irony of the 4th sentence, and I hope you do too. I wanted to make sure you saw that, so you don't feel left out. Sometimes CoOter doesnt point that kind of stuff out to me and I often feel hurt and left out. I dont want you to go through that.


    Proper break-in is critical to realizing maximum life and performance of your engine kit! We can't stress this enough. Follow these steps to the letter. Ignore any alternative methods you may read about on the internet!
    Minimizing heat is absolutely essential to successful break-in, and excessive heat will damage your pistons and forever condemn your motor to be a mediocre performer. The reason for this is that neither your rings nor your cylinder bores are perfectly round on initial assembly. Therefore, the rings are actually only making contact with the cylinder walls in a few places. The tension of the rings is concentrated in these places, increasing friction and heat. This condition exists until the rings have a chance to carve the cylinders into their shape. While that process is taking place, however, the rings and the pistons are very vulnerable to damage from excess heat. You can learn more about this phenomena by researching "ring microwelding". It's a very real risk to your engine!
    The assembly lube you put on the rings and pistons is to help combat ring microwelding. Yes, we know that some shops recommend minimal or even no lube at all to better assist the break-in process. We don't subscribe to that theory. Your rings are at much greater risk of microwelding than they are of failing to seat. They will seat just fine. You need to pay attention to the possibility of damaging them.
    On your initial start-up, run the engine no longer than 10 seconds. Use a clock with a second hand or a stop watch. Don't guess! Shut it off and allow it to cool completely to room temperature. A little bit of patience now will go a long way to providing you with a strong motor that lasts a long time.
    For your second heat cycle, run the motor no longer than 20 seconds. Again, time it properly, don't guess. Allow it to cool completely.
    Repeat these heat and cool cycles with run times of 30 and 40 seconds.
    You're now ready for your first ride. Keep the rpm's down as much as possible and keep air flowing across the cylinders. Ride it no more than a mile, shut it down, and let it cool completely
    For your second ride, treat it similarly gently. Keep your rpm's below 3500 and keep air moving across the cylinders. Ride it a couple miles and let it cool completely.
    For the next 50 miles, do not exceed 3500rpm and avoid using full throttle. Vary your speeds, allowing the engine to pull and then decelerate gradually. This reversal on the rings, from pressure to vacuum, assists in the seating process.
    For the next 500 miles, stay below 4000rpm, avoid using full throttle, and keep the heat down.
    Once you're past the 500 mile break-in period, change your oil. During break-in, the rings have carved the cylinders into their shape and the shavings have been captured in the oil, so you want to change the oil to get that stuff out. Use any high quality 20W-50 oil formulated for air-cooled V-Twin engines.

  10. #30
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    So much BS. Start it. Ride it. Change the oil after a few rides and get on with enjoying your Buell.



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