09 xb12xt: 30mpg avg, dies 3-5 times at startup. oil pump vacuum... etc

[oisterska]

So I have an 09 xb12xt, purchased 7500 miles and 6 months ago. First, thanks to everyone for the headlight mod tutorials, and for the breather reroute tutorials.

The problems:
well, started out with a problem starting at anything below 50 degrees farenheit. engine runs for 30 seconds, then dies (with a hiccup sort of sound). next try, runs for a minute then dies (same sound). next time, runs for a few minutes, then dies. depending on temp, it will do this between 3 and 5 times before it will stay running for more than a few minutes. sometimes, it will die at a light/stop sign after a few minutes of riding too.

took it to dealer, they found an oil leak, fixed that. then they said that the oil pump was creating a vacuum that sucked the oil from the swingarm as soon as i turned off the engine. the cold oil in the bottom of the engine is making it hard for the pump to push the oil through the lines and causing resistance inside the engine during a cold startup (i am not a mechanic, so apologies for not knowing exact terminology).

they replaced the pump, but problem persists. their answer: harley/buell tech services tells them that it is a problem with some 2008-2010 bikes, and to basically just deal with starting issues until it gets warmer outside. This seems like an unsatisfactory answer.

they said the same thing for the gas mileage: 30mpg in winter is result of alcohol in gas. as it gets warmer, gas gets better, as will mpgs...

so I am not very happy with their answers, just wondering if this has been a problem for anyone else? if they are correct that these are not problems critical to engine life, etc., then I have one final problem:

because pump sucks oil out of swingarm, i cannot check my oil using the dipstick. dealership says that there is a harley tech bulletin that outlines a 2 PAGE process for checking oil as workaround for this problem. 2 pages! but HD doesnt send this report/give it to the riders with the problems! I am having to call and request this information.

this all seems ridiculous on a $13000, new machine. luckily I purchased 5 year warranty. ive already made 2x my money back on warrantied services and parts. (I recommend the tire and wheel plan!!)

Love the site, and if youre still reading this, thanks for lending me your ear!

-kellen

[Stevenc150]

What RPM's is it idling at? Also, have they tried a TPS reset and a good Learn-in ride? Also, I highly recommend Iridium spark plugs (NGK# DCPR9EIX) as they're very foul-resistant and you won't have to wonder if that's the problem.

If they've not done a TPS reset, here's the procedure so you can DIY:

'08+ TPS Reset Procedure:

- Have the Run/Stop button set to Run.

- Turn the ignition key to the On position but do not crank or start the engine.

- Open the throttle fully to the stop and hold it there for one second.

- Close the throttle fully to the stop and hold it there for one second.

- Repeat the throttle open/close procedure a total of three times in succession.

- Turn the ignition key to Off/On


Follow up with a good Learn-in ride for your ECM by taking a nice long cruise 40-60mph keeping RPMs from 1500-3500.

Edit: Oh, and welcome to the Forum. :D

[afinley]

Yeah, they need to service the oil pump one way or the other. Telling you it just sucks all the oil out of the arm is not an acceptable answer. By that logic, to honor your warranty you should be adding more oil; because, the manual tells you how to check your oil and you "about a quart low" at all times right now.

If they will not help you any further, call customer care at: 4143434056, option 4

[oisterska]

thanks very much for your replies. they did replace the oil pump and i --assume-- that they did a TPS reset. they said that it had a 'throttle position low' code or something as well, which i assume, again, that they would do a TPS reset for.

I will try another this afternoon. Also, the mechanic (Rocky) did give me the number for harley customer care. I will also be calling them this afternoon.

I will try to post video of the startup issue on youtube or something soon.


also, Rocky at Paradise HD is a badass mechanic who has bent over backwards for me. Thanks Rocky, if you are reading this.

[Stevenc150]

...the cold oil in the bottom of the engine is making it hard for the pump to push the oil through the lines and causing resistance inside the engine during a cold startup

How cold are these cold starts? If that motor starts and runs for one solid minute, that oil will be warm enough to be "pushed" through the lines. This is starting to stink of BS they're trying to feed you. Might have them also make sure all the latest reflashes have been done 'cause it's sounding like an ECM problem.

[RT Performance]

i would say you have two option get ecm spy tune it and turn up the cold enrichment.(i had to my xb9 for could start pop and stall.
option 2 find the idle adjuster and turn it up slightly
than do the tps relearn

[oisterska]

Here is a video of my startup issues. Startup 2009 xb12xt

No throttle is being added. dies @ 20 sec, 1 min, 1:45, 2:13, 2:45, 3:20. drives me nuts to watch this video.

I have since done the breather reroute, which helped a bit, but not really. This was after dealer replaced oil pump, gaskets, whatever else.

...and, again, thanks very much!

[bolt08]

WOW! that is frustrating as hell!! I think that it needs to go back to the dealer and stay there until it works properly. Has it always done this or has this problem recently developed? My 08 XB12R starts & runs for about 2 to 4 seconds and stalls right away (sometimes after sitting for a week or more) but it starts right back up and doesn't do it again. Have you tried starting it and trying to keep the rpms at about 1300 to 1500 & if you did this did it stall then too? I know you don't want to go crazy revving a cold engine, but just a little more than idle?

[oisterska]

No, it has not always done this. It developed before a cold spell hit us here in Portland, OR. It was such a pain during the cold spell. On a few different days, it would not start at all because of the super cold oil. (25 deg. F) killed the battery trying, put the key into my 1981 Yamaha SR185 (severely neglected), and it fired right up. I was shocked. I think that I will definitely bring it back to the dealer, after hearing what you all think here and at badweb. problem is, they garage the motorcycles, so it is probably not cold enough when they start it. (mine is stored outside, under an enclosed EZUP shelter)

It was suggested (at badweb) by froggy that it is my IAC (idle air control). I will ask the dealer about that as well, and perhaps have them install some new plugs just for fun.

and yes, i have been giving slight, consistent throttle after ignition and it has helped a bit. However, it still will die at some point, be it as i hit the bottom of the driveway or 3 blocks down the road at a stoplight.

It idles at 1500rpm for a few seconds, then drops to about 1000rpm. during this time it will sometimes revv up and down a bit, almost choke out, regain equilibrium, then eventually die.

calling dealer tomorrow. thanks again

[onelogue]

Rocky at Paradise HD is a badass mechanic who has bent over backwards for me. Thanks Rocky, if you are reading this.

First off, I used to live it Oregon and Rocky is a bad ass!!!
I cant wait to move back in June so Rocky cane be my mechanic again.
losterka we will have to go on the Buell rides in Portland.

Your bike is definitely running wack cause my '04 started no problem last winter.
Don't settle for anything less then a push of the button and the bike idling at 1000 rpm's

bolt08, Yes normal (from what our local dealer says too), my brother's '08 xb12R jumps to 1,500 rpm at start then dies after 2 to 4 seconds. After that it idles at 1000 rpm's and never dies again.
But for olsterka's bike to die ever after warmed up; thats not right!!